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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Happening Now > Politics Central

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Politics Central An archive of discussions of a political nature that took place here.

 
 
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  #1  
Old 17 Sep 09, 21:05
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Obama's Credit Crunch

After promising the moon to everyone in America, how long can Obama last if the "entitled" can't get credit?'

Quote:
NEW YORK - It's a good time to borrow money for a home, car or small business.A year after a global freeze in the credit markets prompted massive government intervention to prevent the financial system from collapsing, interest rates remain at historic lows. But banks are demanding more collateral, bigger down payments and detailed financial histories from borrowers.
And that's for people with good credit. Everyone else need not apply.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32900988...nting_america/
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  #2  
Old 17 Sep 09, 21:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
After promising the moon to everyone in America, how long can Obama last if the "entitled" can't get credit?'

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32900988...nting_america/
So, banks being fiscally responsible and making loans, freeing up credit to the credit-worthy, something that will help the economy, is a topic that somehow can be used to criticize Obama?

It's not that it is a bad argument, it is not an argument at all, really.
  #3  
Old 17 Sep 09, 21:29
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Anything that can be used to criticise Obama should be used to criticise Obama. That's how it worked during Bush's administration, that's how it should work now.

But really, the banks should be responsible in their lending. The government should NOT intervene to 'free up' credit.

But I am fully confident that Obama will not be able to resist the temptation to intervene to force the banks to lend more liberally.
  #4  
Old 17 Sep 09, 21:44
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THIS time, the banks should tell Obama and/or the Government to take a hike.

Banks do NOT exist to be surrogate welfare providers, Government efforts to the contrary not withstanding.

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  #5  
Old 17 Sep 09, 21:53
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That's precisely what is worrying. A lot of people are talking about "lessons not being learnt" by Wall Street.

But hardly anyone is talking about THIS particular lesson.

Did the banks come up with fantastically complicated financial instruments and build up a house of cards. A definite yes. But part of the problem to begin with was government forcing banks to lend cheap and easy.

What did everyone think the banks will do? Bear the increased risks themselves? Of course not! They're banks! So how to spread the risk? Why, repackage them as financial instruments that can make money. As long as the property market booms, there will always be people willing to buy such risks and make money from bearing these risks on behalf of the banks.

The really fun part about this construct is that these things came around and banks began to buy the risks of other banks because the original risks can become so obscured that they don't see it anymore!

Smart people really can find novel and complicated ways of outsmarting themselves.
  #6  
Old 17 Sep 09, 21:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogukuo72 View Post
Anything that can be used to criticise Obama should be used to criticise Obama. That's how it worked during Bush's administration, that's how it should work now.
This attitude is the cause of many of the world's problems

..An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. NO!..Rather, I say to you do unto your neighbour as you would have him do unto you. If this radical approach was tried, things might improve. I don't care who is the POTUS, as if one is doing the wrong thing he can eventually be voted out and replaced(probably by another who will also do some wrong things), but to continue to model behaviour based on short term "revenge" is not a formula for progress. Just my 2 cents worth.
  #7  
Old 17 Sep 09, 22:28
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So, I gather you are not in favor of "active" criticism and/or opposition to an Administration's efforts until the next election, when one's opinion is "voted".

Now that is a nice, theoretical outlook for the situation.

Unfortunately, if an administration is trying to stuff controversial programs down the citizenry's collective throats BEFORE the next election (Hence the haste of Obama's "agenda items".), opponents would come up to the next election and be handed a "fiat accompli" on some of the more contentious of Obama's "program(s)".

Given past history to judge by..... it is to be noticed that massive Government programs, once enacted, are virtually impossible to "undo" by remedial Legislation at a later date. (In fact, the "Law of Unintended Consequences" is observable in hastily enacted Government Social Programs more than anywhere else. )

A complete remake of our Health Care "system" would be an example of an overall program that would be most difficult to "undo".

Hence....... most "opponents" tend to feel that we cannot afford to wait until the next election for remedy. The objective is to NOT to have anything passed that might NEED "remedy". Clearly the preferred course of action.

Just sayin'.

GG
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  #8  
Old 17 Sep 09, 22:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by At ease View Post
This attitude is the cause of many of the world's problems

..An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. NO!..Rather, I say to you do unto your neighbour as you would have him do unto you. If this radical approach was tried, things might improve. I don't care who is the POTUS, as if one is doing the wrong thing he can eventually be voted out and replaced(probably by another who will also do some wrong things), but to continue to model behaviour based on short term "revenge" is not a formula for progress. Just my 2 cents worth.
True. But it's so much more fun to criticise for the sake of criticism.
  #9  
Old 17 Sep 09, 23:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by At ease View Post
This attitude is the cause of many of the world's problems

..An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. NO!..Rather, I say to you do unto your neighbour as you would have him do unto you. If this radical approach was tried, things might improve. I don't care who is the POTUS, as if one is doing the wrong thing he can eventually be voted out and replaced(probably by another who will also do some wrong things), but to continue to model behaviour based on short term "revenge" is not a formula for progress. Just my 2 cents worth.
From a Darwinian point of view, survival depends entirely on doing unto others before they do unto you.

Auto manufacturers, appliance manufacturers, home construction contractors and other high end folks like the realty market need customers. Tightening the lending rules, rather than overhauling their own FUBAR operations, looks good on paper but it reduces the available pool of big ticket item customers, thus driving the economy downward. The situation is made even worse by increasing restrictions on those who have good credit, thus removing many of them from the buyer pool as well.


hat which is created must be sold to keep the wheels turning. That which is created but not sold represents financial loss that is largely unrecoverable.
Even Democrats can't run an economy that way.

Eventually, His Righteous Miserableness Obama will have to issue a decree to lighten up in order to keep the whole house of cards from collapsing on his watch, which will merely perpetuate and prolong the same dysfuntional cycle as before.

This is what I am thinking.
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  #10  
Old 18 Sep 09, 00:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnfan View Post
So, banks being fiscally responsible and making loans, freeing up credit to the credit-worthy, something that will help the economy, is a topic that somehow can be used to criticize Obama?

It's not that it is a bad argument, it is not an argument at all, really.
Thank you US banks for finally growing a brain. Now I don't have to worry about you crashing again and throwing the rest of the world economy down the toilet just b/c you wanted to let Americans with a min. wage job get a freaking mortgage.

Oh whats the use. The lesson won't keep a year.
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  #11  
Old 18 Sep 09, 00:20
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MM: .... and you think rightly, IMHO.

.... as do you, Demon.

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  #12  
Old 18 Sep 09, 12:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon_Llama View Post
Thank you US banks for finally growing a brain. Now I don't have to worry about you crashing again and throwing the rest of the world economy down the toilet just b/c you wanted to let Americans with a min. wage job get a freaking mortgage.

Oh whats the use. The lesson won't keep a year.
They haven't really "grown a brain", as you put it. They just know they are being watched at the moment. The un-earned CEO bonuses go on undisturbed, while the number of banks facing closure is growing.

Have you considered that there are not enough apartments or other rental units in all of America to accomodate all those who now cannot qualify for homes, and that building and renting will not ameliorate the staggering loss on vacant houses?
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  #13  
Old 18 Sep 09, 19:02
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The Government Should Not Be Able To Barrow Money On The Credit Of The United States.
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Old 18 Sep 09, 19:23
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They Have Always Done So. Why Would Now Be Any Different?

Computer Still Broken?
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  #15  
Old 18 Sep 09, 20:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnitedMi View Post
The Government Should Not Be Able To Barrow Money On The Credit Of The United States.
That little bit was discussed at the Constitutional Convention, at some length. It was decided that Congress would be allowed the ability to "borrow" money because the potential for that eventuality was noted... such as in time of war. It WAS expected to be an "extreme emergency only" ability.

What the Founding Fathers did not foresee was that elected officials would begin to show financially irresponsible behavior. Couple THAT to the insidious practice of "earmarking" taxpayer money for the benefit of one's home district in the effort to "buy" votes, what other logical outcome could there be?

GG
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