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Politics Central An archive of discussions of a political nature that took place here.

 
 
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  #46  
Old 17 Sep 09, 13:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macgregr View Post
Absolutely, and thus Carter is right. They don't admit it to themselves, as that has been a pattern throughout their lives. That being said, me calling say, MM a racist will have no impact amongst his supporters. It won't affect politics at all, but perhaps draw the politics out of people. Transparency is always good. The Obama presidency has done much to identify these people. We'll just have to wait to see the political impact. If one strongly believes in the inequality of man, race is but one identifier. Does this absolve one of the 'racist' moniker? Or merely add to it? To me, the latter would be so. But this country already fought one war over this. I would not dishonor the deaths of 100s of thousands by not picking up that battle flag.
You are absolutely right in that it is wrong to see racism and do nothing about it, but its also just as damaging to the fight against racism to cry wolf. I think that is what President Carter did. Sorry that I couldn't find it, but I read an article yesterday on the web about the number of Democrats distancing themselves from the former President's comments. In a time where both sides of the fence engage in partisan warfare at the expense of the country that speaks volumes. If any of them truly believed that the Senator's comments were made out racial prejudice they would say so and they would come out in support of President Carter's comments. Even former Presidents get a certain degree of deference from their party and Carter did not get that this time.
  #47  
Old 17 Sep 09, 14:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macgregr View Post
Absolutely, and thus Carter is right. They don't admit it to themselves, as that has been a pattern throughout their lives. That being said, me calling say, MM a racist will have no impact amongst his supporters. It won't affect politics at all, but perhaps draw the politics out of people. Transparency is always good. The Obama presidency has done much to identify these people. We'll just have to wait to see the political impact. If one strongly believes in the inequality of man, race is but one identifier. Does this absolve one of the 'racist' moniker? Or merely add to it? To me, the latter would be so. But this country already fought one war over this. I would not dishonor the deaths of 100s of thousands by not picking up that battle flag.
Racism is making political, economic or social decisions based on race rather than other factors. Thus, despite the skewed definition of the leftists from Benjamin Hooks to Larry King (who parrotted the hooks definition) and Sista Solja, some people of color are racists too.

Claiming that anyone who disagrees with anyone of color is a racist just for not submitting to them actually insults the victims of real racism. IOW for some it is enough to accuse someone or some institution of racism with no need to demonstrate it.
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  #48  
Old 17 Sep 09, 14:45
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And yet again that idiot Carter makes the rest of Georgia look bad. He really erks the heck out of me.
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  #49  
Old 17 Sep 09, 15:00
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Overplaying the race card is the one thing both sides probably fear the most. So far, the Dems do it the most often, and it's hurting them badly each time. It sends clear message to Americans that race is all Obama has offer, instead of trying to defend him on policy grounds.
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  #50  
Old 17 Sep 09, 15:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
Overplaying the race card is the one thing both sides probably fear the most. So far, the Dems do it the most often, and it's hurting them badly each time. It sends clear message to Americans that race is all Obama has offer, instead of trying to defend him on policy grounds.
Let's be honest here: Pres Obama has been pretty weak on strictly policy grounds, especially domestic affairs and the economy. His partisans know it, so they'll do what good partisans have always done: they'll thrash about in desperation until they hit upon some catchy turn of phrase that bails their horse out of his current doldrums. It's really rather funny to watch. What gets me is, why aren't the American people hip to this shell game yet? It can't be that they haven't seen it before -- like every time some elected official's poll numbers drop. What gives? How can we be so gullable so often?
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Old 17 Sep 09, 15:36
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Obama is right, but even a blind squirrel finds an acorn occasionally. And he simply could not afford to feed the troll on this.

As for Carter...he is fundamentally a decent, God-fearing man; but, he was totally incompetent as President, and is simply an idiot on some issues. Like this one. Senile? Who knows? He's had crazy ideas for at least 30-40 years.

BUT, he wasn't a draft dodger. That I can say for him.
  #52  
Old 17 Sep 09, 19:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPangracs View Post
You're kidding, right? Intelligence doesn't seem to be a qualification, or are the libs changing their tune? GWB was a pilot of one of the most dangerous and unforgiving aircraft ever in service, graduated from an Ivy League school, and he was elected TWICE!
What does this have to do with your assertion that Carter was never successful in politics, in clear defiance of the definition of the words "never" or "successful"?

Quote:
Do you REALLY want to get started in yet ANOTHER losing argument?

I didn't think so...
Yes. You said "stay out of the one thing he was NEVER successful at...politics".

Carter was elected President, a clear success.

Explain how your comment is correct. Did you not know Carter was president? That might explain the error.
  #53  
Old 17 Sep 09, 19:41
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Rush is now calling Carter the "National Hemorrhoid"

At least when Regan started going senile, he had the grace to withdraw from public life.
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  #54  
Old 17 Sep 09, 19:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPangracs View Post
I'll use one of your own gems...

Let's see if you will ever apply your own standards to your own arguments....
It is clear.

The comment was...

"Of course the White House refutes what Carter said. His statements were nothing but an insult to people the White House and Democrats desperately need on their side to get their legislation passed, get reelected and, just generally not get pi$$ed off. Carter managed to torpedo all three needs."

There are three comments here. Carter's comments hurt the Democrat's need to get constituents to

1. Favor legislation
2. Get reelected
3. Not get angry

Ogukuo72 was correct, but I do not think the issue was planned. Ogukuo72 said, "I think it's a good cop/bad cop thing."

You are not thinking like a Prince, specifically a Machiavellian one.

It is hardly unusual for a Southern politician to have racial issues. Were it not for the fact that I know the individual in question, I would suspect racial problems as well. So the accusation is not unreasonable. Carter likely sees a racial problem.

Any claim that there is not some racial animosity towards Obama would be silly. There is undoubtedly some, and this is unacceptable to most Americans. By pointing out the unreasonable nature of prejudice against the President, Obama gains some ground.

Obama in turn distances himself from the comment, displaying his levelheadedness and again appealing to many constituents.

Additionally the comment beings the news cycle back to the outburst by Wilson, which was incredibly inappropriate. Keeping the news cycle focused on Wilson's comments is good for Obama, because of the generally negative reaction to Wilson's outburst.

It is not necessarily a case of good cop, bad cop, in a planned sense, at least, but it is a valuable opportunity Obama can exploit.

So the inappropriateness of Wilson's comments are further exemplified. Obama looks moderate, and the racial issue is brought up again which does influence some voters. Be they Democrat or Republican, all politicians should study Machiavelli.
  #55  
Old 17 Sep 09, 20:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exorcist View Post
Rush is now calling Carter the "National Hemorrhoid"

At least when Regan started going senile, he had the grace to withdraw from public life.
I don't think we can really compare Reagan to Carter. Reagan developed Alzheimers, while Carter is probably just developing the early senility of old age.
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  #56  
Old 17 Sep 09, 20:24
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No one has adequately explained how Carter's comments were unreasonable. So despite all of the vitriol directed towards Carter, his comments, an assumption that a Southern gentleman might have a racial problem, is hardly unreasonable. I do not think it is correct, but I do not consider his comments unreasonable.
  #57  
Old 17 Sep 09, 22:30
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Posted by (ah-hack, cough cough) Lincoln fan:

“So despite all of the vitriol directed towards Carter, his comments, an assumption that a Southern gentleman might have a racial problem, is hardly unreasonable.”


Wait, I can do this…..

This is such a poor, poor, poor, poor, poor, poor, poor, poor, poor, poor argument I can’t believe you even read Mr. Carter’s comments, much less understood them.

Did I get it right?

But seriously, Carter did not voice an “assumption” that a “southern gentleman” might have a racial problem. What he actually said was, quote:

“"I think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man, that he's African-American," Carter told "NBC Nightly News" in a broadcast Tuesday. "I live in the South, and I've seen the South come a long way, and I've seen the rest of the country that shares the South's attitude toward minority groups at that time, particularly African-Americans."

"That racism inclination still exists, and I think it's bubbled up to the surface because of belief among many white people -- not just in the South but around the country -- that African-Americans are not qualified to lead this great country. It's an abominable circumstance, and it grieves me and concerns me very deeply," Carter said.

End Quote. Link:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/...ama/index.html

Carter was making a broad statement not limited to those who may live in the south, but did limit his comments to “white” people. But thankfully he isn’t getting away with it. Except maybe with a few folks around the internet.

Carter 'Racism' Claim Draws Widespread Criticism

Quote:

“Former President Jimmy Carter drew widespread criticism Wednesday for saying that Rep. Joe Wilson's "You lie!" outburst last week was "based on racism" and that an "overwhelming portion" of similar demonstrations against President Obama are rooted in bigotry.”

“Obama's supporters have attributed racist motives to some opponents of his health care plan for weeks, but Carter is the highest-profile person so far to push that claim.”

End Quote. Link: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...ead-criticism/

Even the white house has issued a statement:

White House disputes Carter’s analysis

Quote:

The White House says President Barack Obama doesn't believe he's being criticized because of his race.

Spokesman Robert Gibbs said Wednesday that Obama — the nation's first black president — doesn't think that criticism of his policies is "based on the color of his skin."

Gibbs was asked about the topic following comments on Tuesday by former President Jimmy Carter. Gibbs says some people have disagreements with some of Obama's decisions but that those concerns were not because of his race.

End Quote. Link: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...ead-criticism/

His comments were unreasonable and ridiculous on their face. Obama wasn’t elected to the presidency via the minority vote, he carried a substantial portion of the white vote in this country as well. But according to Carter, “many white people” are racist.

Playing the race card, all he has left to him, I suppose.

Since the picture I posted of Carter holding the race card was updated by the host website to something else, I have deleated it.
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Last edited by Martok; 18 Sep 09 at 20:42..
  #58  
Old 18 Sep 09, 14:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post
Let's be honest here: Pres Obama has been pretty weak on strictly policy grounds, especially domestic affairs and the economy. His partisans know it, so they'll do what good partisans have always done: they'll thrash about in desperation until they hit upon some catchy turn of phrase that bails their horse out of his current doldrums. It's really rather funny to watch. What gets me is, why aren't the American people hip to this shell game yet? It can't be that they haven't seen it before -- like every time some elected official's poll numbers drop. What gives? How can we be so gullable so often?
Because we see it so often? Ever notice that no one even looks around anymore when a car alarm goes off? I think it's the same principle - PC/political-sensory overload.
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  #59  
Old 18 Sep 09, 14:47
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Carter needs to be censured. But I won't hold my breath.
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Last edited by Martok; 18 Sep 09 at 14:49..
  #60  
Old 18 Sep 09, 15:23
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In a sense, he has been now that the White House has repudiated his view, but I agree...I won't hold my breath either.
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