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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East

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The Middle East Asia Minor, the Arab Mahgreb, and the Persian Gulf to include tensions between Israel and its Arab neighbors, Terrorist organizations and Iran.

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  #196  
Old 17 Mar 11, 23:32
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No, it's politics. Any Arab plane helping out over Libya is a huge publicity win, for everybody involved. I am sure we would be happy to give them all the fuel and facilities they might need to do it.
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  #197  
Old 17 Mar 11, 23:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
You both think Egypt is one of the 2, even with the unstable government?

I would have never guessed Egypt, but I could be wrong.
Egypt has just started shipping (mostly small arms) across the border to the rebels in Eastern Libya. Were Gadhaffi to overrun Benghazi, there would likely be hundreds of thousands of refugees pouring across the border into Egypt - the last thing Egypt wants right now.

Quote:
I would never have thought of Lebanon
Lebanon was one of the main sponsors of the UN resolution that has just passed.


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  #198  
Old 17 Mar 11, 23:42
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Then why does every news source refer to the 2 Arab nations as "two unnamed Arab countries"? You'd think they would want their names out there...if that were the case.

Quote:
Britain and France, along with two unnamed Arab countries, were preparing to enforce the no-fly zone, said a European diplomat, adding that it could take "between 24 and 48 hours" for the operation to begin.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/03/1...#ixzz1GumS8Ih2
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  #199  
Old 17 Mar 11, 23:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
No, it's politics. Any Arab plane helping out over Libya is a huge publicity win, for everybody involved. I am sure we would be happy to give them all the fuel and facilities they might need to do it.
OK -- I can agree with that -- we would have to move the Enterprise from the Red Sea - through the Suez - and into the Med -in order for our jets to be able to respond and hold air cover for any period of time.

Our land bases in Italy are a long way away - that means on target time is limited by fuel requirements - unless we have air refueling tankers in the area - which we probably do but I haven't heard that yet.

Then we would have to make certain that Lebanon has planes capable of air refueling - a tricky process at best -- so ???

By the time the US gets involved in a meaningful way - this whole thing will be over

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  #200  
Old 17 Mar 11, 23:50
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I think Italy is well in range. We flew the 1986 attack from England, and that was around France or around Spain, whoever wasn't happy with us. I think it is more likely that the Air Force attacks from Italy than a carrier based attack. It is simply safer. There is also Malta which is about as close as a carrier and probably willing to help. The Brits are on Crete and there's another US base on some other island between Crete and Malta.

There is definitely more than enough air refueling in the area, even before this development. As somebody posted earlier even Italy and France have substantial capabilities here and it's all NATOised with mutual training.

And you can be sure that every bit of hardware needed after the UN decision is already in place tonight. They probably have half a mile worth of tankers standing somewhere in Italy.

As for the two Arab nations - Somalia and the Palestinian Authority with one Cessna 150 each!
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Old 18 Mar 11, 00:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
I think Italy is well in range. We flew the 1986 attack from England, and that was around France or around Spain, whoever wasn't happy with us. I think it is more likely that the Air Force attacks from Italy than a carrier based attack. It is simply safer. There is also Malta which is about as close as a carrier and probably willing to help. The Brits are on Crete and there's another US base on some other island between Crete and Malta.

There is definitely more than enough air refueling in the area, even before this development. As somebody posted earlier even Italy and France have substantial capabilities here and it's all NATOised with mutual training.

And you can be sure that every bit of hardware needed after the UN decision is already in place tonight. They probably have half a mile worth of tankers standing somewhere in Italy.

As for the two Arab nations - Somalia and the Palestinian Authority with one Cessna 150 each!
If the air fueling is on station - then the problem is solved.

Yes, the 86 attack on poor Qaddafi came from England - with multiple refueling - and an "in and out" attack.

Holding station to enforce a "no fly zone" poses an entirely different set of challenges for the US -- not so much Italy and France - but for the US - simply because of where our bases are located.

I'm confident that "our people" are talking to "their people" ( Italy, France, Malta ) to get the necessary permissions for "fly over" and landing and servicing rights.

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  #202  
Old 18 Mar 11, 00:21
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Do you have a Stratfor subscription? They have a current map of the NATO bases. It's really no problem.

Carrier based F-18s would refuel about the same number of times that land-based Air Force planes would due to their atrocious non-range. Refueling once or twice on pretty much any advanced mission is standard for a long time. In fact they probably pack the planes so full of ordnance that they can only lift off with enough fuel to reach a tanker and go from there.
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  #203  
Old 18 Mar 11, 00:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
I think Italy is well in range. We flew the 1986 attack from England, and that was around France or around Spain, whoever wasn't happy with us. I think it is more likely that the Air Force attacks from Italy than a carrier based attack. It is simply safer. There is also Malta which is about as close as a carrier and probably willing to help. The Brits are on Crete and there's another US base on some other island between Crete and Malta.

There is definitely more than enough air refueling in the area, even before this development. As somebody posted earlier even Italy and France have substantial capabilities here and it's all NATOised with mutual training.

And you can be sure that every bit of hardware needed after the UN decision is already in place tonight. They probably have half a mile worth of tankers standing somewhere in Italy.

As for the two Arab nations - Somalia and the Palestinian Authority with one Cessna 150 each!
The Brits are at RAF Akrotiri on Cyprus - about 1000nm from Tripoli.
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  #204  
Old 18 Mar 11, 00:27
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Errr, right, Brits on Cyprus, the US are on Crete. I'm sorry for the mixup.
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  #205  
Old 18 Mar 11, 00:36
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There is a possible chance of cruise missile strikes from subs, knock out some air defenses before the planes show up.
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  #206  
Old 18 Mar 11, 00:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
Do you have a Stratfor subscription? They have a current map of the NATO bases. It's really no problem.

Carrier based F-18s would refuel about the same number of times that land-based Air Force planes would due to their atrocious non-range. Refueling once or twice on pretty much any advanced mission is standard for a long time. In fact they probably pack the planes so full of ordnance that they can only lift off with enough fuel to reach a tanker and go from there.
No - I don't subscribe to anything I have to pay for - there are so many "free" sites that I end up learning everything in due time anyway -- just not as fast. LOL

Tinker AFB is only about 30 miles from my home -- there are a number of AWACS Pilots ( this is the primary AWACS base for us ) and crew members that attend my church -- they have been standing by all week - just waiting for the green light.

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  #207  
Old 18 Mar 11, 00:40
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Originally Posted by Achtung Baby View Post
There is a possible chance of cruise missile strikes from subs, knock out some air defenses before the planes show up.
I like that notion -- then we'll see how much Qaddafi brags about his power

The man should have just kept his mouth shut - then China would have opposed the no-fly proposal

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  #208  
Old 18 Mar 11, 03:14
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The man should have just kept his mouth shut - then China would have opposed the no-fly proposal
I must've missed this. What did gaddafi say about china that was insulting?
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  #209  
Old 18 Mar 11, 09:01
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I must've missed this. What did gaddafi say about china that was insulting?
He patronized them when bashing other nations Wednesday and Thursday. Basically he said "nice doggy". The way it was worded after translation and press there was a bright spotlight on China for standing on the other side from where everybody else is standing.

It doesn't take much observation of China in general and their current government in particular that they really don't like that.
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  #210  
Old 18 Mar 11, 10:11
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Errr, right, Brits on Cyprus, the US are on Crete. I'm sorry for the mixup.
No worries. It was late.

Anyway, Cameron has stated that the UK will send ISTAR, AAR, Tornado and Typhoon assets. I have heard rumours that the Typhoons may possibly be based in Malta.
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