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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East

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The Middle East Asia Minor, the Arab Mahgreb, and the Persian Gulf to include tensions between Israel and its Arab neighbors, Terrorist organizations and Iran.

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  #166  
Old 17 Mar 11, 00:32
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The U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. announces they may need to take steps "beyond a no-fly zone." Libya's U.N. ambassador says Gadhaffi has "gone mad".

Latest from Al Jazeera:

Quote:
1:29am

The AFP news agency reported on Wednesday that the UN Security Council have reached an agreement on the text of a draft resolution on Libya, which will be put to a vote on Thursday, diplomats said.

1:47am

The US ambassador to the United Nations has said that the Security Council will continue the negotiations on Libya Thursday.

"My hope that we are able to reach a serious resolution."

1:53am

The UN Security Council may need to take measures in Libya that go beyond a no-fly zone in Libya, the US envoy to the United Nations said Wednesday.

3:00am

France, Britain and the United States have pressed for a UN Security Council vote on Thursday on a no fly zone to halt Muammar Gaddafi's attacks on rebels.

Council ambassadors met behind closed doors to debate the text for more than eight hours on Wednesday, and said they would return on Thursday morning.

3:30am

Al Jazeera’s Scott Heidler said that Rice’s call for “a resolution that should go beyond a no-fly zone, is something that we haven't heard before.

“We are hearing from diplomatic sources that change came over night on Tuesday when an initial draft resolution presented and discussed yesterday afternoon.

“She came into the discussions today [Wednesday] with a different point of view. And that was yes no-fly zone and even a step further beyond a no-fly zone.”
Philip
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  #167  
Old 17 Mar 11, 08:52
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US independent Senator Joe Lieberman has warned that the US may well pay a steep price if Gaddafi remains in power.

"The situation is getting more critical, the consequences of Gaddafi coming back to power are far-reaching and long-lasting - all of the consequences in my view are bad," Lieberman said.
Any elaboration on what this means?
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  #168  
Old 17 Mar 11, 10:11
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I think from a certain standpoint France and England and to a lesser degree the US have already declared war on Gadafi during this crisis. We openly sided with the rebels and encouraged them. And Germany is ousted as a toothless old lady.

If Gadafi thinks he is in a situation of open war with France, England and the US he might resort to terror. Nah, he would never do that, right?

I think we might regret not dislodging him.

Of course the rebels are pissed, too. If they get beaten there's a mirror situation of 1991 here.
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  #169  
Old 17 Mar 11, 15:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan88 View Post
Any elaboration on what this means?
Funding Terrorism again -- or if he has been doing so covertly, then he would probably do so overtly now.

Restarting his Nuclear program

Providing additional safe havens for known Terrorist groups that he may have not protected in recent years

Those are just a few of the things Qaddafi might do - obviously, a direct military confrontation is out of the question - but he has many other, less direct, options.

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  #170  
Old 17 Mar 11, 16:02
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That's too bad. It would've been better then not to have sided with anyone early on with the situation so unclear and fluid.
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Old 17 Mar 11, 16:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan88 View Post
That's too bad. It would've been better then not to have sided with anyone early on with the situation so unclear and fluid.
Sitting on the fence is very uncomfortable -- the fence is usually sharp and might be pointed

I believe in picking a side - hopefully the sight that has "right" on it's side LOL

Once that choice has been made - you support it -- otherwise it might be better just to stick your head in the sand -- but that has never been my way !

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  #172  
Old 17 Mar 11, 16:29
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Yeah, once a side has been picked, it doesn't pay to be wishy-washy about it.

Fence-sitting is different, it's when one is undecided. But, a rebellion is an internal affair, I guess for me I'm not one for intervention.

If one were to apply the intervention, how about quelling the violence in bahrain? would it be treated the same as Libya if the "rebels" in bahrain got themselves armed also?
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  #173  
Old 17 Mar 11, 16:57
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Gadafi is a real threat to the West, always has been, and he's probably catching rabies right now. He is also hated enough inside the Arab world that they asked us to shoot down his planes.

If that's what we want to do, I don't see difficulty justifying helping the Libyan rebels and do nothing about Bahrain.
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  #174  
Old 17 Mar 11, 17:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan88 View Post
Yeah, once a side has been picked, it doesn't pay to be wishy-washy about it.

Fence-sitting is different, it's when one is undecided. But, a rebellion is an internal affair, I guess for me I'm not one for intervention.

If one were to apply the intervention, how about quelling the violence in bahrain? would it be treated the same as Libya if the "rebels" in bahrain got themselves armed also?
The Saudi's have already stepped in in Bahrain -- so we don't need to do so.

Libya is a different story -- they have a "history" - we all know that history - no sense in ***** footing around there

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  #175  
Old 17 Mar 11, 18:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
The Saudi's have already stepped in in Bahrain -- so we don't need to do so.
His point was that maybe we should consider stepping in to help the rebels, not help the ruling family which is what the Saudis are doing.


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  #176  
Old 17 Mar 11, 20:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philiplaos View Post
His point was that maybe we should consider stepping in to help the rebels, not help the ruling family which is what the Saudis are doing.


Philip
I don't believe our role in the world is to overthrow Governments --

I do believe it is our obligations - as moral people - to prevent the slaughter of thousands of people - after we have encouraged an insurrection!

The problem we have in Libya is similar to what occured in Hungary in 1956 --

We encourage an uprising - we promise to "stand with the people" and then we promptly sit down and wring our hands because people are being killed -- and we do nothing !!!

We need to do one of two things -- Sit Down and Shut up at the beginning -- OR We need to do what we say we are going to do -- without political posturing !!!

I am so sick of Political Saber rattling without ever taking action!

It is embarrassing to have such a weak government!

We should never make promises we don't intend to keep. People take us at our word and they risk their lives and we just pretend that we don't see it -- maybe another round of Golf is called for -- or perhaps filling out our basketball brackets takes precedence -- who knows what the idiot in the White House is thinking -- if anything at all - other than how to screw up this country further.

I don't want us involved overseas -
I don't want us to be the Police Officers of the world ---
BUT I do want us to do what we say we are going to do -- and I want us to NEVER send out Ambiguous signals to other people.

Words mean things - and what you say has consequences.

This Government needs to subscribe to the principal of "Say what you mean -- Do what you say" !!

What a novel concept that would be for Obummer !!

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  #177  
Old 17 Mar 11, 20:34
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Quote:
In an interview broadcast Thursday on Portuguese public broadcaster Radiotelevisao Portuguesa, Gadhafi rejected any U.N. threats of action.

"The U.N. Security Council has no mandate," Gadhafi said. "We don't acknowledge their resolutions."

He warned that any military action would be construed as "colonization without any justification" and would have "grave repercussions."

The Arab League has supported the call for a no-fly zone, and Gadhafi said that as a result "it's finished."
Qaddafi is the one that is finished! He can go pound sand.
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  #178  
Old 17 Mar 11, 21:10
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We're at war. It's much more than a no-fly zone.

Latest from Al Jazeera:

Quote:
12:33am

The UN Security Council imposes a no-fly zone over Libya and authorises "all necessary measures" to protect civilians.

12:56am

Germany, Brazil, India, Russia and China abstained from voting on the UNSC resolution.

12:52am

Susan Rice, the US ambassador to the UN, speaks after the vote:

The future of Libya should be decided by the people of Libya. The US stands by the Libyan people."

1:16am

The new day began in Libya with the passing of the UN Security Council resolution for a no-fly zone over Libya.

1:25am

Shadi Hamid of the Brookings Doha Centre tells Al Jazeera:

I think Gaddafi's threats forced the UN and US to take action. The Arab world is on board, the Libyan rebels are on board."


1:15am

UN authorises "all necessary measures" to impose a no-fly zone over Libya, to protect civilian areas and impose a ceasefire on Gaddafi's military. Ten voted for the resolution, none were against it while five abstained.

1:40am

The Libyan deputy foreign minister is speaking in Tripoli:

We are very grateful for the five countries that abstained," he says, listing the countries. When he gets to Germany, he laughs, "And Germany - what a surprise."

1:41am

Alain Juppe, the French foreign minister, in tabling the UN security council resolution:

We cannot let these warmongers ... do this," he said. "We have very little time left. It's a matter of days. It's perhaps a matter of hours. We should not arrive too late."
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  #179  
Old 17 Mar 11, 21:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
Qaddafi is the one that is finished! He can go pound sand.

Perhaps - but it isn't likely.

As usual, any action to be taken will come too late for thousands of people -- and will probably not be enough to insure Qaddafi's ouster.

This should have been done two weeks ago!

The latest news report indicated that the revolutionaries have been deserting and blending in with the general public for the last 12 days - they report that only a few hundred remain in Benghazi at this moment.

I have to wonder what a few hundred men are going to be able to accomplish against several thousand mercenaries and Qaddafi's entire military that is arrayed against them on the outskirts of town.

Politicians don't seem to understand that "Talk and Bluster" are relatively ineffective against Tanks, Bombs, and Bullets

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  #180  
Old 17 Mar 11, 21:31
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I agree, Obama dragged his feet way too long on this one.
But I have confidence in our military. I believe they will prevail and crush Qaddafi and his hired thugs.

Surprisingly, even Hillary gets it...

Quote:
Fed up with a president “who can’t make his mind up” as Libyan rebels are on the brink of defeat, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is looking to the exits.

At the tail end of her mission to bolster the Libyan opposition, which has suffered days of losses to Col. Moammar Gadhafi’s forces, Clinton announced that she’s done with Obama after 2012 — even if he wins again.

Clinton is said to be especially peeved with the president’s waffling over how to encourage the kinds of Arab uprisings that have recently toppled regimes in Egypt and Tunisia, and in particular his refusal to back a no-fly zone over Libya.

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/03/17/031711-news-hillary-1-2/
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