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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > World War II > Armor in World War II

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Armor in World War II Discuss all aspects & disciplines of World War II Armor here.

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  #76  
Old 13 Dec 17, 14:43
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It didn't.
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  #77  
Old 13 Dec 17, 20:07
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Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
It didn't.
Not quite sure why a Tiger is being mentioned in a contender for best light tank thread?
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  #78  
Old 14 Dec 17, 11:21
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Maybe he meant the Mini Me Tiger:



The Pz If... The original "Tiger mouse."
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  #79  
Old 14 Dec 17, 17:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
Maybe he meant the Mini Me Tiger:



The Pz If... The original "Tiger mouse."

Its almost an improvement on the Matilda 1, when the A11 was already obsolete before WW2 started. It appears your photo has a third of the entire production run of these super heavt lights (10 out of 30). Unsurprisingly, they were not very reliable.
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  #80  
Old 14 Dec 17, 17:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

Its almost an improvement on the Matilda 1, when the A11 was already obsolete before WW2 started. It appears your photo has a third of the entire production run of these super heavt lights (10 out of 30). Unsurprisingly, they were not very reliable.
Almost? The Pz If and Pz IIj have Tiger level armor on them! They have 80mm frontal armor, and 50mm side and rear armor. They are mice that think they're M1 Abrams for the early war period.

Sure, the idiocy with them comes from the Pz If having just two 7.9mm machineguns and the Pz IIj having one machinegun and 20mm cannon, but they are like typical insane German engineering.
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  #81  
Old 16 Dec 17, 06:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
Maybe he meant the Mini Me Tiger:



The Pz If... The original "Tiger mouse."
The question that beckons an answer is why?

Obviously intended as a weapon to be used against infantry and heavy weapons like any other tank, but highly specialized to deal only with "soft" targets in a dangerous enviroment.

Tt seems that it was designed starting in 1939, when Belgian fortresses, the Maginot Line and spectres of WWI was still in the mind of the German Army. And may have made sense in that context.

The followed the successes of 1940 and 1941 and for some reason production commenced in 1942. Perhaps they had the parts made already and decided to build the vehicles rather than just scrap the bits? Or someone had contracts and connections and managed to get them fulfilled, whether or not the vehicle was needed?

One wonders if someone was thinking about a tank for airtransport or landing by sea. The idea being to sacrifice armament for protection, giving the landing party a mobile bunker to help them. This thing could probably be transported in a ME321 glider.
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  #82  
Old 23 Dec 17, 14:58
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In my opinion, i have a problem saying what i think is better. I know i have to go with the American light tanks, because they did fight well. The M3 light tank fought well in both the Pacific and in the Desert.

The M5 series also fought well in the desert and it proved an adequate recon vehicle with the Cavalry Groups. The M24 also proved to be a very logical replacement for the M5 series.

For the most part, light tanks were abandoned by most countries, but the US would hold onto light tanks all the way into the 60's
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  #83  
Old 23 Dec 17, 22:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy31a View Post
In my opinion, i have a problem saying what i think is better. I know i have to go with the American light tanks, because they did fight well. The M3 light tank fought well in both the Pacific and in the Desert.

The M5 series also fought well in the desert and it proved an adequate recon vehicle with the Cavalry Groups. The M24 also proved to be a very logical replacement for the M5 series.

For the most part, light tanks were abandoned by most countries, but the US would hold onto light tanks all the way into the 60's
The reason the US continued with the light tank was the US Army seemed loath and opposed to using armored cars. That's pretty much an attitude you can see even today. The LAV isn't the most popular weapon with the US Army and that the Marines get them sort of argues that the Army sees them as inferior and something to hand down to the Marines.
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  #84  
Old 23 Dec 17, 23:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
The reason the US continued with the light tank was the US Army seemed loath and opposed to using armored cars. That's pretty much an attitude you can see even today. The LAV isn't the most popular weapon with the US Army and that the Marines get them sort of argues that the Army sees them as inferior and something to hand down to the Marines.
Not exactly so, look at the use of the Stryker now in the US Army
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  #85  
Old 24 Dec 17, 00:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy31a View Post
Not exactly so, look at the use of the Stryker now in the US Army
That was what I was talking about. In WW 2, the US produced a variety of armored cars but only the M8 was adopted by the US Army. The rest were made for Britain or given away on Lend Lease. After the war, the M8 saw limited service with MP units as a constabulary vehicle but was pretty much taken out of combat units entirely.
Nothing replaced it until Vietnam where MP units again got some Cadillac Gage V90's for security work.
The US Army has never put much effort or value on armored cars.
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  #86  
Old 24 Dec 17, 02:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbo View Post
The question that beckons an answer is why?
....
Not sure, myself, but they could have made themselves useful by escorting the first Tiger Battalions.

Nice for hosing down the enemy infantry if they try to swarm the big boys, and they also look a lot tougher than the Mk. III tanks that ended up getting that job... far more likely to shrug off AT fire that misses the Tigers.

However, IMHO, they sure as hell ain't "light" tanks.
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  #87  
Old 24 Dec 17, 10:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
The reason the US continued with the light tank was the US Army seemed loath and opposed to using armored cars. That's pretty much an attitude you can see even today. The LAV isn't the most popular weapon with the US Army and that the Marines get them sort of argues that the Army sees them as inferior and something to hand down to the Marines.
During the LAV's initial development, the Army had been interested in the 25mm gun version if modified to carry ammunition or cargo in the rear instead of dismounts, and the program even got to the point of being designated the M1047. The legislature, however, eliminated money for the Army's 2,350 desired vehicles, forcing the Marine Corps to carry on with the project alone.
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