Machine Guns and WWII

[Pruitt]

Mark,

You could also lay barrages with them. In World War I, the British would elevate the guns and fire over 1000 yards to create a beaten zone where no one could pass. All you needed was lots of ammo and water.

Pruitt

[Gary Kennedy]

The British Army was considering phasing out the Vickers MMG in late-ish 1942, and bringing in Support Bns, equipped with 20-mm light AA guns and 4.2-in heavy mortars. The thinking was the MMG was too sluggish to move around the modern battlefield. Thankfully, the project didn't go ahead, I've seen a citation somewhere that the MMG proved its continued value in the desert war as helping kill the proposal. Once units were able to mount their MMGs on carriers the mobility issue was largely addressed, and where terrain denied their use it could still be broken down and hauled to where it was required.

Gary

[Nick the Noodle]

Originally Posted by flash

One of the few advantages of being a gunner was the fact that as it was a section weapon everybody had to clean it,great,they had to clean their rifles and parts of my gun,ha ha. I would normally end up with the butt to clean, ha ha ha.

I didn't let anyone touch my 'gun', even the awkward gas plug.

In peacetime, it did have the advantage that while the corporal tended to take last watch, I always had first watch. An uninterrupted sleep was worth the added cleaning.

[150935]

Originally Posted by Gary Kennedy

The British Army was considering phasing out the Vickers MMG in late-ish 1942, and bringing in Support Bns, equipped with 20-mm light AA guns and 4.2-in heavy mortars. The thinking was the MMG was too sluggish to move around the modern battlefield. Thankfully, the project didn't go ahead, I've seen a citation somewhere that the MMG proved its continued value in the desert war as helping kill the proposal. Once units were able to mount their MMGs on carriers the mobility issue was largely addressed, and where terrain denied their use it could still be broken down and hauled to where it was required.

Gary

I am interested in the campaigns in the Pacific mainly Kakoda was the Vicker of much use or was the Bren Gun used instead?

[lcm1]

Originally Posted by 150935

I am interested in the campaigns in the Pacific mainly Kakoda was the Vicker of much use or was the Bren Gun used instead?

Don't know a lot about that area but suspect that with that type of terrain the bren would be put to good use? lcm1

[flash]

Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle

I didn't let anyone touch my 'gun', even the awkward gas plug.

In peacetime, it did have the advantage that while the corporal tended to take last watch, I always had first watch. An uninterrupted sleep was worth the added cleaning.

Au contraire my dear Nick.I used to force the buggers to clean it
I't's only fair,I'm humping the bloody thing around while they're bimbling about with "puny" rifles. I'm also apparently 70% of the sections firepower so they get to clean 70% of the thing (The remaining 30% being the butt of course)

[Crackshot]

Originally Posted by 150935

I am interested in the campaigns in the Pacific mainly Kakoda was the Vicker of much use or was the Bren Gun used instead?

I'll revive this old thread to answer your question.

The Bren Gun was the main support weapon of the militia and the ADF. Two Lewis guns were also used by the 39th battalion during the campaign. A quick google search found some information of Vickers guns being used by the Australians. I imagine not in great numbers, though, because it would be difficult to lug around that terrain: especially in fighting withdrawals, where you would need to dismantle the weapon and carry it over mud, vines and steep trails with a bunch of angry Japanese on your ass.

I once talk with an old Kokoda veteran who talked about Vickers gun being used as anti-aircraft. However, I think he might have been talking about the fighting in Buna-Gona after the campaign. It's a pity I didn't document what he said (my video camera fd up) because it was fascinating.

[Crackshot]

Originally Posted by SRV Ron

For those that don't know what a Japanese type 99 Assault Machine Gun looks like, here is a picture of one after it was repaired due to ATF vandalism. It evens features a bayonet.

Smile for the security camera.

A bit late I know, but I think that's a Type 96 chambered in 6.5, not a 7.7 Type 99. Note this one doesn't have the conical flash hider of the 99.

[Karri]

Why does it have a bayonet?

[Cult Icon]

These machineguns are too heavy, too cumbersome, and lacking in mobility. Even heavy MG's need to be displaced and moved around. Not as much as a section MG, but still.

They can however, sustain fire better than air-cooled guns with exchangeable barrels.

Originally Posted by MonsterZero

When I was much younger and had limited knowledge of history I frowned upon the big and bulky water cooled machine guns as too heavy, too cumbersome and lacking in mobility.

However, in reality this was an excellent weapon. Maybe not mobile but perfect for defense. Because of the cooling water in the jacket, you can squeeze the trigger and hold it down until the ammo box runs out. The gun will steam after a while, but the barrel will remain cool. This is the only type of automatic weapon where the theoretical rate of fire = actual rate of fire. You will not damage this weapon by firing 600 rounds per minute. This cannot be said of the fancier lightweight designs that came later.

[T. A. Gardner]

Originally Posted by Karri

Why does it have a bayonet?

So when it inevidably jams as you are banzai charging forward with it you can still fight like a real 20th century Japanese soldier!

[lcm1]

Originally Posted by Crackshot

I'll revive this old thread to answer your question.

The Bren Gun was the main support weapon of the militia and the ADF. Two Lewis guns were also used by the 39th battalion during the campaign. A quick google search found some information of Vickers guns being used by the Australians. I imagine not in great numbers, though, because it would be difficult to lug around that terrain: especially in fighting withdrawals, where you would need to dismantle the weapon and carry it over mud, vines and steep trails with a bunch of angry Japanese on your ass.

I once talk with an old Kokoda veteran who talked about Vickers gun being used as anti-aircraft. However, I think he might have been talking about the fighting in Buna-Gona after the campaign. It's a pity I didn't document what he said (my video camera fd up) because it was fascinating.

All the landing craft in my flotilla carried two lewis guns I assume they were for Anti aircraft but remember two deckhands firing up the beach with them, believe all they did was annoy the German gentleman on his heavy mcg because we got quite a prolonged burst in return! lcm1

[KICK]

Originally Posted by johnbryan

German military doctrine was to deploy their rifle squads in support of their automatic weapons.

yep.. I was always under the impression that in the German Army the rifleman were there to support the Machine gun, mostly to hump ammo and prevent it being flanked whereas everybody else used the machine gun to support the rifleman.