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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Warfare Through the Ages

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Warfare Through the Ages Roman, Greek, Japanese, etc. Topics cover all manner of pre-modern warfare and empire-building and crushing.

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  #871  
Old 16 Jul 12, 12:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post
Are we to suspend healthy disbelief vis a vis the "sealed train"?

Gimme a break.
Lenin's passage through Germany was not a "secret sabotage operation of planting subversive German agents into Russia", as some illiterate nitwits try to tout it. After the February Revolution the Provisional Government declared amnesty to all political emigrants and invited them to return into Russia. However, the Entente actively opposed the passage of not only Bolsheviks, but even Mensheviks and members of a few other parties, across their territory. Public pressure forced the Provisional Government to open negotiations with Germans, offering them to exchange political emigrants for prisoners of war. The negotiations dragged on, bogged down in political controversies, and eventually the Bolsheviks decided they couldn't wait any longer and asked the Germans to grant them the right of passage themselves.

Ergo:

1. This was not an "operation of the German General Staff"
2. The Bolsheviks did not return as "underground saboteurs" - they were invited to Russia along with all other political emigrants
3. The agreement with the Germans on the right of passage does not indicate any "betrayal", otherwise the Provisional Goverment and all those it represented would be traitors as well for trying to strike just the same kind of agreement.
4. The passage through German territory and the accusations of receiving German funding are two separate things which get conflated by people with certain political bias to push their agenda. While the passage was well known back then and does not constitute any betrayal, the accusations of receiving German money have been debunked by several scholars, and Kerensky's papers and Sisson Documents have been exposed as fakes.
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  #872  
Old 16 Jul 12, 16:40
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Now play nice Gents and keep on topic

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  #873  
Old 17 Jul 12, 04:02
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I'm not sure if Lenin fits but, oh well.

Baker's dozen of Russian leaders, commanders and famous people with foreign origin

1. Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, born Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili, Georgian (1878 - 1953)
2. Catherine the Great, Prussian (1729 -1796)
3. Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, aka Lenin (1870-1924)[/b]

4. John Paul Jones/Павел Джонз, Scotland/United States of America (1747-1792)

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  #874  
Old 17 Jul 12, 04:47
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Baker's dozen of Russian leaders, commanders and famous people with foreign origin


1. Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, born Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili, Georgian (1878 - 1953)
2. Catherine the Great, Prussian (1729 -1796)
3. Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, aka Lenin (1870-1924)[/b]
4. John Paul Jones/Павел Джонз, Scotland/United States of America (1747-1792)

5. Prince Pyotr Ivanovich Bagration (Goergia)

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  #875  
Old 17 Jul 12, 12:01
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Baker's dozen of Russian leaders, commanders and famous people with foreign origin


1. Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, born Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili, Georgian (1878 - 1953)
2. Catherine the Great, Prussian (1729 -1796)
3. Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, aka Lenin (1870-1924)
4. John Paul Jones/Павел Джонз, Scotland/United States of America (1747-1792)
5. Prince Pyotr Ivanovich Bagration (Goergia)

6. Vitus Bering (Denmark)

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  #876  
Old 17 Jul 12, 17:18
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Baker's dozen of Russian leaders, commanders and famous people with foreign origin


1. Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, born Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili, Georgian (1878 - 1953)
2. Catherine the Great, Prussian (1729 -1796)
3. Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, aka Lenin (1870-1924)
4. John Paul Jones/Павел Джонз, Scotland/United States of America (1747-1792)
5. Prince Pyotr Ivanovich Bagration (Goergia)
6. Vitus Bering (Denmark)

7. Michael Andreas Barclay de Tolly (1761-1818)


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  #877  
Old 18 Jul 12, 23:38
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Baker's dozen of Russian leaders, commanders and famous people with foreign origin

1. Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, born Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili, Georgian (1878 - 1953)
2. Catherine the Great, Prussian (1729 -1796)
3. Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, aka Lenin (1870-1924)
4. John Paul Jones/Павел Джонз, Scotland/United States of America (1747-1792)
5. Prince Pyotr Ivanovich Bagration (Goergia)
6. Vitus Bering (Denmark)
7. Michael Andreas Barclay de Tolly (1761-1818)

8. Alexander Pushkin (1799-1837)

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  #878  
Old 19 Jul 12, 13:12
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Baker's dozen of Russian leaders, commanders and famous people with foreign origin

1. Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, born Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili, Georgian (1878 - 1953)
2. Catherine the Great, Prussian (1729 -1796)
3. Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, aka Lenin (1870-1924)
4. John Paul Jones/Павел Джонз, Scotland/United States of America (1747-1792)
5. Prince Pyotr Ivanovich Bagration (Goergia)
6. Vitus Bering (Denmark)
7. Michael Andreas Barclay de Tolly (1761-1818)
8. Alexander Pushkin (1799-1837)

9. Eduard Ivanovich Totleben (1818-84)
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  #879  
Old 19 Jul 12, 23:27
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Baker's dozen of Russian leaders, commanders and famous people with foreign origin

1. Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, born Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili, Georgian (1878 - 1953)
2. Catherine the Great, Prussian (1729 -1796)
3. Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, aka Lenin (1870-1924)
4. John Paul Jones/Павел Джонз, Scotland/United States of America (1747-1792)
5. Prince Pyotr Ivanovich Bagration (Goergia)
6. Vitus Bering (Denmark)
7. Michael Andreas Barclay de Tolly (1761-1818)
8. Alexander Pushkin (1799-1837)
9. Eduard Ivanovich Totleben (1818-84)

10. Regina Spektor

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  #880  
Old 20 Jul 12, 04:59
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Baker's dozen of Russian leaders, commanders and famous people with foreign origin

1. Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, born Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili, Georgian (1878 - 1953)
2. Catherine the Great, Prussian (1729 -1796)
3. Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, aka Lenin (1870-1924)
4. John Paul Jones/Павел Джонз, Scotland/United States of America (1747-1792)
5. Prince Pyotr Ivanovich Bagration (Goergia)
6. Vitus Bering (Denmark)
7. Michael Andreas Barclay de Tolly (1761-1818)
8. Alexander Pushkin (1799-1837)
9. Eduard Ivanovich Totleben (1818-84)
10. Regina Spektor

11. Peter Carl Fabergé



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à vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire (triumph without peril brings no glory) P. Corneille

Le probleme avec les cons, c'est qu'il ne se fatiguent jamais
(The problem with Pr.cks, is that they never get tired ) Michel Audiard
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  #881  
Old 23 Jul 12, 23:15
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Baker's dozen of Russian leaders, commanders and famous people with foreign origin

1. Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, born Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili, Georgian (1878 - 1953)
2. Catherine the Great, Prussian (1729 -1796)
3. Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, aka Lenin (1870-1924)
4. John Paul Jones/Павел Джонз, Scotland/United States of America (1747-1792)
5. Prince Pyotr Ivanovich Bagration (Goergia)
6. Vitus Bering (Denmark)
7. Michael Andreas Barclay de Tolly (1761-1818)
8. Alexander Pushkin (1799-1837)
9. Eduard Ivanovich Totleben (1818-84)
10. Regina Spektor
11. Peter Carl Fabergé

12. Lev Kamenev (Jewish father)

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  #882  
Old 30 Jul 12, 02:00
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Baker's dozen of Russian leaders, commanders and famous people with foreign origin

1. Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, born Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili, Georgian (1878 - 1953)
2. Catherine the Great, Prussian (1729 -1796)
3. Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, aka Lenin (1870-1924)
4. John Paul Jones/Павел Джонз, Scotland/United States of America (1747-1792)
5. Prince Pyotr Ivanovich Bagration (Goergia)
6. Vitus Bering (Denmark)
7. Michael Andreas Barclay de Tolly (1761-1818)
8. Alexander Pushkin (1799-1837)
9. Eduard Ivanovich Totleben (1818-84)
10. Regina Spektor
11. Peter Carl Fabergé
12. Lev Kamenev (Jewish father)

13. Konstanty Ksawerowicz Rokossowski


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  #883  
Old 30 Jul 12, 02:25
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Baker's Dozen Cities renamed during the Soviet period

1. Tver (Kalinin)


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  #884  
Old 30 Jul 12, 02:40
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Baker's Dozen Cities renamed during the Soviet period

1. Tver (Kalinin)

2. Volgograd (Stalingrad)

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  #885  
Old 30 Jul 12, 05:39
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Baker's Dozen Cities renamed during the Soviet period

1. Tver (Kalinin)
2. Volgograd (Stalingrad)

3. St Petersburg (Leningrad)

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à vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire (triumph without peril brings no glory) P. Corneille

Le probleme avec les cons, c'est qu'il ne se fatiguent jamais
(The problem with Pr.cks, is that they never get tired ) Michel Audiard
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