Eastern front diplomatic relations

[Michele]

Originally Posted by Nickuru

From a strategic point of view Germany had won WWII in 1940.

Huh, no. britain was still at it and it controlled the oceans.

Hitler lost WWII by attacking Russia (USSR) IMHO. After you have western Europe under your control, why attack such a vast nation as the USSR? Politics of insanity, what purpose does it serve?

You are overlooking where the oil and foodstuffs were coming from, and what Germany was paying for them.
The USSR (chiefly), and nothing.

In early 1941 Germany and the parts of Europe it occupied lived off the Soviet supplies, which they were not paying for. The trade agreement had given Germany a delay of 12-18 months in their payments. They were already in arrears, and a new round of trade negotiations was scheduled for the spring of 1941. The Soviets' 1st point in the agenda would have been, when are you beginning to pay?
Why, even the German strategic stockpile of rubber would have gone in the red without a couple of deliveries from Manchuria; guess where they were routed through?

Vichy France and occupied France ate something else, too, not coming from the Ukraine breadbasket: grains and oil coming from the French North-African colonies. These shipments did not depend on the Soviets, but they still depended from an enemy of Germany, Britain. The British were unwilling - for the time being, mind you - to starve the French.

German-controlled Europe could make do without these imports, if they decided to slash armament production, military spending, maintenance of existing military assets, and manpower in uniform. They would have essentially needed to go to a peacetime footing, demobilize the Heer in order to strengthen the agricolture, stop producing explosives in order to produce fertilizers, leave the horses to the farms, stop producing artillery tractors in order to produce farming vehicles, and so on and so forth.
Unlikely.

Meanwhile, Stalin would have continued producing T-34s and modern aircraft. He would have finished the new fortification line. He would have allowed the Krasnaya Armija to train its officers and men and to consolidate mobile-forces large units and doctrine. And he would have remembered the German default on payments due.

Meanwhile, the British would have continued the blockade and the bombing.

Meanwhile, the USA would have continued helping the British.

[Nickuru]

I can see your strategic point, Michele. And this may explain why Hitler was willing to send German armies into the Balkans for food and oil. But the invasion of USSR was a commitment to a dangerous all-or-nothing policy. Nevermind that Hitler screwed up the plan from the very beginning.

[OpanaPointer]

Nazi-Soviet Relations, 1939-1941 Documents from the German Foreign Office.

[The Exorcist]

Originally Posted by CarpeDiem

You might find this article interesting:
Stalin and the Prospects of a Separate Peace
in World War II
by VOJTECH MASTNY

http://www.archive.org/stream/Mastny...WarIi_djvu.txt

Originally Posted by OpanaPointer

Nazi-Soviet Relations, 1939-1941 Documents from the German Foreign Office.

Thanks Gents, there is some stuff in there I have been looking for, for several years now.

Not the opinions, what I have been interested in how diplomatic contacts were maintained during WW2.
Even while they are shooting at each other, world leaders still like to stay in touch.

Looking at the personalities involved, Stalin and Hitler both can be said to be pragmatists of the coldest, cruelest sorts... but as such could only accept a deal that would favor themselves, at the other's expense.
As such, no deal could have been made.

The only way I see this working is with a secret deal between Goering and Beria. They fix it so that their respective leaders are killed in planes crashes on the same day, sometime between Dec. 5th 1941 and September 5th 1942. The next day they announce to their stunned peoples and staffs that there will be a compromise peace, and work out all sorts of under the table deals while everyone remains mesmerized over where eactly the line can be drawn down the middle of some featureless grasslands.

Other than that, its a fight to the finish.

[clackers]

Interesting the repeated attempts by the ambassador, Count von der Schulenberg, to relay his opinion that Stalin was not about to attack Hitler.

[OpanaPointer]

Originally Posted by The Exorcist

Thanks Gents, there is some stuff in there I have been looking for, for several years now.

Not the opinions, what I have been interested in how diplomatic contacts were maintained during WW2.
Even while they are shooting at each other, world leaders still like to stay in touch.

Looking at the personalities involved, Stalin and Hitler both can be said to be pragmatists of the coldest, cruelest sorts... but as such could only accept a deal that would favor themselves, at the other's expense.
As such, no deal could have been made.

The only way I see this working is with a secret deal between Goering and Beria. They fix it so that their respective leaders are killed in planes crashes on the same day, sometime between Dec. 5th 1941 and September 5th 1942. The next day they announce to their stunned peoples and staffs that there will be a compromise peace, and work out all sorts of under the table deals while everyone remains mesmerized over where eactly the line can be drawn down the middle of some featureless grasslands.

Other than that, its a fight to the finish.

Now for fun, read Falsificators of History (A Historical Note), issued by Soviet Information Bureau, Moscow, February, 1948. Seems we have it all wrong about Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

[The Exorcist]

Originally Posted by OpanaPointer

Now for fun, read Falsificators of History (A Historical Note), issued by Soviet Information Bureau, Moscow, February, 1948. Seems we have it all wrong about Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

Uh huh... riiiiiiight.
Funny how that works, ain't it?

[OpanaPointer]

Originally Posted by The Exorcist

Uh huh... riiiiiiight.
Funny how that works, ain't it?

Yeah. And for more fun, Mao's communications with foreign heads of state is also available, in three volumes no less.