Article about Stalingrad in The Independent

[ShAA]

Originally Posted by Scott Fraser

One must make allowances for the failure of the public school system.

Regards
Scott Fraser

That's a very peculiar failure, I should note. It's like saying "Washington escaped from New Amsterdam" or "The Wehrmacht entered Lutetia with a parade".

[Stryker 19K30]

Originally Posted by ShAA

That's a very peculiar failure, I should note. It's like saying "Washington escaped from New Amsterdam" or "The Wehrmacht entered Lutetia with a parade".

Its not a 'failure' of any education system in this case. I mean I get the Soviet = Russian thing. It annoys me, but other than some tongue in cheek response from me, I really can accept it. But in this case - this particular poster in about 1.3 of his posts goes on about how his great-grandfather or whatever was in the White Army so he tries to be overly monarchist or whatever. Maybe I should break it to him that even the most Я русский C нами Бог dudes I know call Leningrad Leningrad and Stalingrad Stalingrad.

[Nickuru]

The one central issue here is the superb defense of Tsaritsyn (Stalingrad, I know the KGB is coming after me for misnaming it). The general in charge was Vasili Chuikov.

Historians have admired Gyorgi Zhukov, rightfully so and also Ivan Konyev, also rightfully so. If you look at their campaigns they are an excellent strategy versus a tactically depleted enemy.

But it was the Army of Vasili Chuikov which had to bleed itself to death in front of the German 6th Army. This general and all his troops sacrificed most of their lives to save their country. No one pays attention to the exceptional skills as commander that Vasili Chuikov had.

[Jack Torrance]

For the people who have seen those who actually fought in the war and spoken to, for those who know the situation firsthand, this is the simple truth, as opposed to the Western Cold War version you seem to cherish so much. Of course, in the last 50 years it was imperative for the US to present its enemy as a "hell on earth" and its soldiers a reluctant semi-slave army, therefore the Nazi generals' version of the war was widely accepted and taken as a gospel.

Get over the fact the Cold War ended over twenty years ago, ShAA. Anyway, it's a complete fiction that Ivan was always portrayed as having to be forced to fight with a bayonet at his back. Nobody here believes in that nonsense with the exception of a few who probably still believe in Cold War era Soviet propaganda like it was the Germans who committed the Katyn Forest atrocities.

[ShAA]

Originally Posted by Jack Torrance

Get over the fact the Cold War ended over twenty years ago, ShAA.

I did, and quite a long time ago. It's just the Western media (and seems like much of the population) still believe whatever tripe American propaganda fed them through these years.

Anyway, it's a complete fiction that Ivan was always portrayed as having to be forced to fight with a bayonet at his back.

Always? Not, of course. I can say "generally" or "very often". Are you feeling better now?

Nobody here believes in that nonsense with the exception of a few who probably still believe in Cold War era Soviet propaganda like it was the Germans who committed the Katyn Forest atrocities.

It's funny how bizarrely reluctant you are to admit your side was ever in the wrong. Even now you're changing the subject and start speaking about Soviet propaganda

[The Purist]

Originally Posted by Nickuru

...But it was the Army of Vasili Chuikov which had to bleed itself to death in front of the German 6th Army. This general and all his troops sacrificed most of their lives to save their country. No one pays attention to the exceptional skills as commander that Vasili Chuikov had.

Chuikov did not take command until after the 62nd Army had been driven back into Stalingrad. During the critical fighting in the Don Bend in the summer saw Chuikov recovering from wounds and on the reserve list.

[dgfred]

I have been thinking alot about the sanitation problems the Germans (and the Russians too) had during the battle after reading. So cold... so dangerous outside. Miserable inside.

It must have been horrible.