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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > South Ossetian Conflict

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South Ossetian Conflict Discuss the conflict between Georgia and Russia over South Ossetia.

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  #1  
Old 25 Aug 08, 10:25
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Russian parliament recognized independence of SO and Abkhazia

Russian parliament recognized independence of SO and Abkhazia
http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/29428
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  #2  
Old 25 Aug 08, 10:46
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Ho hum. A rubber stamp parliament 'debating'. A fig leave to disguise an invasion, an occupation and an annexation.
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  #3  
Old 25 Aug 08, 11:00
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A fig leave to disguise an invasion, an occupation and an annexation.
Or, we can say this:

In its declaration of independence SO and Abkhazia committed itself to the highest standards of democracy, including freedom and tolerance and justice for citizens of all ethnic backgrounds. These are principles that honor human dignity, they are values Russia looks for in a friend, and soon we will establish full diplomatic relations with the new nation of South Ossetia and Adkhazia.

We will work with the leaders of South Ossetia and Adkhazia to carry out a smooth and peaceful transition to independence.

The independence of South Ossetia and Adkhazia is an historic step for the Caucas region. It presents an opportunity to move beyond the conflicts of the past and toward a future of freedom and stability and peace. The Russia must seize this opportunity to offer all the nations of this region the prospect of integration into the political, economic and security structure of the Russia. In this way, all the people of the Caucas will be able to see the promise of a better life for themselves and for their children.


(lookup the source of that speech)
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  #4  
Old 25 Aug 08, 11:03
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Great! Now I guess Georgian refugees are allowed to return home and Russia will be recognising Kosovo's independence as well.
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  #5  
Old 25 Aug 08, 11:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
The Russia must seize this opportunity to offer all the nations of this region the prospect of integration into the political, economic and security structure of the Russia.
To quote a movie... "I have a bad feeling about this."
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  #6  
Old 25 Aug 08, 12:03
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Russia will be recognising Kosovo's independence
They could, in exchange for everybody else recognizing SO and Abkhazia
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  #7  
Old 25 Aug 08, 12:21
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BrownBear, I didn't realize international law was some petty market. However I am sure SO and Abkhazia could get recognition if they followed the same model Kosovo did - i.e. a cooling off period, allowing refugees to return, neutral peacekeepers and a referendum.
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  #8  
Old 25 Aug 08, 13:08
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Originally Posted by pp(est) View Post
BrownBear, I didn't realize international law was some petty market. However I am sure SO and Abkhazia could get recognition if they followed the same model Kosovo did - i.e. a cooling off period, allowing refugees to return, neutral peacekeepers and a referendum.
With Russia calling all of the shots?
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  #9  
Old 25 Aug 08, 13:27
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Originally Posted by pp(est) View Post
Great! Now I guess Georgian refugees are allowed to return home and Russia will be recognising Kosovo's independence as well.
Figure the odds! Here is a map that shows Georgia's 19th Century borders; notice that SO and Abzakhia do not are not displayed as separate political entities.

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  #10  
Old 25 Aug 08, 13:39
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Originally Posted by Hida Akechi View Post
With Russia calling all of the shots?
I guess I shouldn't hold my breath.
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  #11  
Old 25 Aug 08, 13:44
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Here is a map that shows Georgia's 19th Century borders;
In 19th century all three of them were part of Russia. Georgia itself at that time was not a "separate political entities".
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  #12  
Old 25 Aug 08, 13:58
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BrownBear, quite so, but since then Georgia won its freedom first for a very brief period in the aftermath of Russian revolution and then in more permanent way after the collapse of Soviet Union. What that map shows is that even within the Russian Empire, Abkhazia and South Ossetia were considered as parts of Georgia [within the Russian empire].

Again I would not mind having independent Abkhazia and SO at all, provided that they gain their independence through legitimate means. Otherwise every country could invade its neighbor, carve a piece of it, conduct some ethnic cleansing, set up a puppet regime and then declare that part independent only to join the conqueror a little while later.
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Old 25 Aug 08, 14:14
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even within the Russian Empire, Abkhazia and South Ossetia were considered as parts of Georgia
they were combined into one administrative part by Russian Empire

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I would not mind having independent Abkhazia and SO at all, provided that they gain their independence through legitimate means
Should I say "shame on Georgia" for not doing it in last 16 years?
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  #14  
Old 25 Aug 08, 14:49
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Should I say "shame on Georgia" for not doing it in last 16 years?
Probably yes. I am. During Shevarnadze years they should have had enough pull with Russia to make Russia go along with it. Saakashvili obviously did not have that alternative as Russia has been opposing resolving the conflict.
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  #15  
Old 25 Aug 08, 16:08
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Originally Posted by pp(est) View Post
Otherwise every country could invade its neighbor, carve a piece of it, conduct some ethnic cleansing, set up a puppet regime and then declare that part independent only to join the conqueror a little while later.
Well that's what almost happened in Bosnia in the 1990 and this could still happen with the declaration of independance of Republika Srpska.
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