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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > South Ossetian Conflict

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South Ossetian Conflict Discuss the conflict between Georgia and Russia over South Ossetia.

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  #31  
Old 21 Aug 08, 22:59
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Arrow Mm

It's not an invasion, but putting some kind of US force in the area is something the Russians will take notice of, and maybe think twice about when and where (if) they pull out, you would rather have nothing there from the US, besides an "invasion force"??

I think this is a start, slow and sure, but to see what kind of reaction this meets, then maybe add more units to the area, or maybe a talking point with Russia, UN other nations around in the area, many possible things open up, rather than doing nothing, I think anyways.

Cheers, thanks for the posts on this everyone!!

Tom

Last edited by TRDG; 21 Aug 08 at 23:22..
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  #32  
Old 21 Aug 08, 23:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRDG View Post
It's not an invasion, but putting some kind of US force in the area is something the Russians will take notice of, and maybe think twice about when and where (if) they pull out, you would rather have nothing there from the US, besidesan :invasion force"??

I think this is a start, slow and sure, but to see what kind of reaction this meets, then maybe add more units to the area, or maybe a talking point with Russia, UN other nations around in the area, many possible things open up, rather than doing nothing, I think anyways.

Cheers, thanks for the posts on this everyone!!

Tom
The more I look at the situation, the more I think the West's options are not limited or constrained at all. If anything, the Georgian conflict had opened up a whole range of options that previously would not be considered.

As long as there's a chance that Russia would play nice, the West would bent backwards to accomodate Russia, lest it withdraws out of the international order and go back to its old ways.

However, as soon as Russia DID start behaving like the old days, there no longer is a need to accomodate Russia, and 'provocative' measures could now be considered and taken. Notice how swiftly the US acted in Poland and Ukraine?

Isolate. Contain. Diminish.
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  #33  
Old 21 Aug 08, 23:17
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Wink I would say

everything but a real military response, as we all know the US is stretched to the limit, but the US Navy, there might be some options there, but I have no idea on the US Navy and what assets are actuallly available if needed....

Cheers, thanks for the reply, any help from some Naval enthusiasts here on this one?

Tom
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  #34  
Old 21 Aug 08, 23:32
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Red face I almost forgot

Does anyone know what kind of ship the USS Mount Whitney is, another Destroyer, or something else....??

Cheers, thanks in advance here.

Tom
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  #35  
Old 21 Aug 08, 23:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herman Hum View Post
If Turkey allowed passage of a CVBG into the Black Sea, it could well be their biggest blunder. The Montreux Convention, like most treaties, cuts both ways. It blocks up the larger vessels of the Black Sea Fleet from the AEgean and Mediterranean. To allow the USN access would undo all the effort of containment in the first place. Russia could, quite rightly and justifiably, claim that the Convention no longer governs the Strait. They could then force the issue by ordering their fleet to sortie. The Turks would either have to sink them or recognize that Convention signatories no longer felt themselves obligated to observe the terms. Simple short-sightedness could release the might of Russia to warm water access.
True. I believe the convention is also one of reasons Russia is looking to get a naval base back on the Syrian coast so they can have a presence in the Med.
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  #36  
Old 21 Aug 08, 23:38
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Our immediate priority is illustrating support for Georgia without antagonizing the Russians. Backing off on public statements and not taking any threatening action (covert or overt) is the best course of action in coping with the current crisis.

I don't think an humanitarian mission supported by the US Navy is a bad ideal so long as we limit the amount of firepower deployed. The strongest statement America can send of our commitment to Georgia is placing our servicemen and women in harms way. Limiting the mission to humanitarian assistance illustrates a non-hostile intent in our demonstration.

I don't believe the US should provide weapons to Georgia at this moment. The Georgian military has no chance of defeating Russia. And we need time to develop an understanding of any possible insurgency effort before America starts handing out guns. Besides, the weapons will give Russia an excuse to continue its occupation.

Our long term policy adjustments should begin after Russia has withdrawn or illustrate no commitment to withdrawal (we are not there yet). For the moment, getting Russia out of Georgia, not containing its goals of expansionism is the priority.
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  #37  
Old 21 Aug 08, 23:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltapooh View Post
Our immediate priority is illustrating support for Georgia without antagonizing the Russians. Backing off on public statements and not taking any threatening action (covert or overt) is the best course of action in coping with the current crisis.

I don't think an humanitarian mission supported by the US Navy is a bad ideal so long as we limit the amount of firepower deployed. The strongest statement America can send of our commitment to Georgia is placing our servicemen and women in harms way. Limiting the mission to humanitarian assistance illustrates a non-hostile intent in our demonstration.

I don't believe the US should provide weapons to Georgia at this moment. The Georgian military has no chance of defeating Russia. And we need time to develop an understanding of any possible insurgency effort before America starts handing out guns. Besides, the weapons will give Russia an excuse to continue its occupation.

Our long term policy adjustments should begin after Russia has withdrawn or illustrate no commitment to withdrawal (we are not there yet). For the moment, getting Russia out of Georgia, not containing its goals of expansionism is the priority.
All good points Deltapooh.

Except that I would adjust the last point - containing Russia is a way to force it to get out of Georgia.
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  #38  
Old 21 Aug 08, 23:56
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Originally Posted by Ogukuo72 View Post
Except that I would adjust the last point - containing Russia is a way to force it to get out of Georgia.
Damn right!

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  #39  
Old 22 Aug 08, 00:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRDG View Post
Does anyone know what kind of ship the USS Mount Whitney is, another Destroyer, or something else....??
LCC Mount Whitney is a command and control ship for amphibious operations.
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  #40  
Old 22 Aug 08, 01:41
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Mount Whitney website:
http://www.mtwhitney.navy.mil/default.aspx

USS McFaul
http://www.mcfaul.navy.mil/default.aspx

Dallas
http://www.uscg.mil/lantarea/cgcDallas/

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Old 22 Aug 08, 13:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRDG View Post
It's not an invasion, but putting some kind of US force in the area is something the Russians will take notice of, and maybe think twice about when and where (if) they pull out, you would rather have nothing there from the US, besides an "invasion force"??

I think this is a start, slow and sure, but to see what kind of reaction this meets, then maybe add more units to the area, or maybe a talking point with Russia, UN other nations around in the area, many possible things open up, rather than doing nothing, I think anyways.

Cheers, thanks for the posts on this everyone!!

Tom
You mean we wouldn't regard it as an invasion, just as the Russians did not regard their actions as 'invading' Georgia, but as 'defending' South Ossetia?
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  #42  
Old 22 Aug 08, 13:56
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Lightbulb

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Quote:
quote=MountainMan;972049]You mean we wouldn't regard it as an invasion, just as the Russians did not regard their actions as 'invading' Georgia, but as 'defending' South Ossetia?
[/quote]

MM

I think the US is smart enough to just get the Russians out to their own side of their territory, nothing further, like what the Russians did'nt do, got it? This is IF some kind of force was used, which is VERY unlikely. So US "invasion", no, would the Russians portray it that way, you bet!!

Cheers, but that would'nt wash as much if we staid on the Georgian border and not one step further, thanks for the reply MM.

Tom

Thanks guys for the info on that mystery ship, very interesting in what kind of ship it really is!!!
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  #43  
Old 22 Aug 08, 14:02
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There appears to be a growing number of ships being assigned to the mission:

http://informationdissemination.blogspot.com/

Now, it appears as though the Poles and Canadians are sending escort vessels along with a nuclear submarine (possibly).

I am currently writing up a Harpoon scenario for this mission in case there are any players around here.
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  #44  
Old 22 Aug 08, 14:09
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Thumbs up Thanks HH

This thing seems far from over, I bet we add more ships if that Russian aircraft carrier and the new Russian port opens up, anyone else?

Cheers, it could be getting a bit "scary" again.

Tom
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Old 22 Aug 08, 16:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herman Hum View Post
There appears to be a growing number of ships being assigned to the mission:

http://informationdissemination.blogspot.com/

Now, it appears as though the Poles and Canadians are sending escort vessels along with a nuclear submarine (possibly).

I am currently writing up a Harpoon scenario for this mission in case there are any players around here.
The USS Dallas (which is the Submarine speculated to go into the Black Sea in the blog link) arrived home in Groton Ct. after a six-month deployment yesterday 8-21-08. Some of the info in that blog is eronious. The Polish and Canadian warships have not been mentioned before as well.
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