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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > South Ossetian Conflict

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South Ossetian Conflict Discuss the conflict between Georgia and Russia over South Ossetia.

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  #16  
Old 13 Aug 08, 17:19
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Anyone else think the Georgians didn't seem to put up much of a fight? They quickly withdrew from Gori, allowing the Russians to loot the place, without much of a fight.
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  #17  
Old 13 Aug 08, 17:21
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So, you saying US was helping both sides?
Besides, IMET was not the only program started way before 2002. Just read the pdf

Last edited by BrownBear; 13 Aug 08 at 17:24..
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  #18  
Old 13 Aug 08, 17:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
So, you saying US was helping both sides?
I'm saying you are trying to elevate what is the military equivalent of a college foreign exchange program (officers going to military schools) with the arming and systemic training of the military of a nation.
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Old 13 Aug 08, 17:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
So, you saying US was helping both sides?
I'm not talking about any conspiracy rubbish, just that they do seem to have pulled back awfully quickly. Compare to the fight the Chechens or Afghans put up when the Russians attacked them.
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  #20  
Old 13 Aug 08, 17:38
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So, we should say that direct commercial sales (started 1996) is more like gift exchange, foreign military financing (started 1997) more like pocket money, foreign military sales (started 1999) is like small souvenirs and excess defense articles (started 1999) is just nothing.
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  #21  
Old 13 Aug 08, 17:44
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Exactly.
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Old 13 Aug 08, 20:06
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Question Operational Surprise . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrey View Post
Anyone else think the Georgians didn't seem to put up much of a fight? They quickly withdrew from Gori, allowing the Russians to loot the place, without much of a fight.
I've read that the Georgians typically kept their best gear and troops facing Abkhazia. Those would have been completely out of position. The troops that began the attack into Ossetia had already run into a lot more than they'd bargained for. When the tank regiments started rolling through it looks like they were just over-run.

The Russians followed pretty standard doctrine of bypassing forces not material to achieving their oeperational objectives. I'm guessing that some of the sporadic fighting since the ceasefire is Russia mopping up the by-passed elements.

One of my co-workers got a call from a friend in country who described a Georgian ambush of a Russian HQ column that was well behind the tanks. Isolated Georgian units may still be willing to resist but without supplies and surrounded by hostile Osssetians I doubt they can hit-and-run for very long.

My two cents.
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Last edited by GCoyote; 13 Aug 08 at 20:07.. Reason: I goofed up as usual . . .
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  #23  
Old 16 Aug 08, 23:29
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Theree is something I got from militaryphoto forum.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...=132442&page=2

04-16-2008, 06:39 PM #19
Dominique
While they may dress in uniforms similar to the US, and some of them have US weapons, they aren't even close to US troops. Of the Georgian units I've seen, only the Commandos had any disciple. The regular units had SERIOUS disciple problems. They stole any and everything they could get a hold of, including the radio and antenna mount off of the HMMWV the NCOIC of their MiTT was driving. When confronted, their commander claimed innocence until the NCOIC told them they would get nothing else from the US military until his equipment was returned. So it "magically" appeared that night.

In Kuwait, they were routinely caught steeling from other units, they broke into shipping containers to steel MREs, and uniforms, many of them got caught steeling form the PX, they set several structures on fire because they were smoking in no smoking areas, etc., etc. Until they can get their sh*t together, there's no way in hell they should be allowed into NATO.

04-16-2008, 10:54 PM #24
Dominique
As I said, the Commando battalion was very disciplined and well led, but they were still equipped with older soviet era weapons (And they did have quite few female hotties). As for the other units, I wouldn't trust them to run the fry station at McDonalds. Their officers were garbage, and hey had no NCOs to speak of. They seemed more interested in what they could beg, barrow or steal from the US. The only reason many of them were here was because they get a supplement to their pay from the US. Most of the officers seemed to out to fatten their own wallets on the backs of their troops.

They need to make clean sweep of the officer corps, actually form a NCO corps, and enforce discipline in the units (that doesn't mean you beat your soldiers, but lead by example). It's a little hard when your officers treat their troops like peasants. They'll never show them any respect, you can't lead by fear alone.

At a minimum, it'll take them five years to weed out the old guard, and start replacing them with a better trained officer corps. If they start now, it'll take five to ten years before they have a seasoned NCO corps within their enlisted ranks, and these guys will be the backbone of any force they field. Until they do, they need to stay as far away from NATO as possible. From what I've seen, if I were the Russians, I wouldn't be worrying about them starting a war, but I would be checking my pockets to see if I still had my wallet, or if the tires were still on my car in the morning.
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Old 17 Aug 08, 15:01
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That would explain a few things . . .

Maybe we should merge this with Lodestar's thread on the performance of Georgia's military. Large scale warfare is impossible without discipline.
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Old 20 Aug 08, 11:59
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Old 26 Aug 08, 23:13
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Irakli Okruashvili: "Saakashvili and his ministers lost the war"
25 Aug 2008 18:39
http://en.apa.az/news.php?id=87414

Paris-APA. Georgian former interior, defense and economic development minister Irakli Okruashvili criticized President Mikhail Saakashvili and his team for military operations in South Ossetia. Okruashvili living in exile in Paris said the operations began without preparation, APA reports. "The operations were conducted almost without preparation. So returning of Abkhazia and South Ossetia to Georgia delayed for 10-15 years at least. All military and civil infrastructures were destroyed and we lost thousands of soldiers and civilians and received hundreds thousands of refugees. I am sure that there was no united command in the operations. The Interior Minister led one brigade, Defense Minister another one and Chief of General Staff Zaza Gogava the third brigade. Misha and his ministers destroyed the country and lost the war".
Irakli Okruashvili criticized the former Tbilisi Mayor Gigi Ugulava as well. He was responsible for supplies. "What is the supply? Our troops were hungry in the second day of the operations. As early as 2005 when I was Defense Minister Pentagon warned Georgia that Russia would bomb the Georgia's territory during the confrontation".
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