HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
British Heritage
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Weider History Group Welcomes You! > Weider History Group Magazines > World War II Magazine

Notices and Announcements

World War II Magazine Discuss magazine articles and issues here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08 May 08, 11:08
Blitzpuppy's Avatar
Blitzpuppy Blitzpuppy is offline
ACG Senior Online Editor
United_States
Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Posts: 186
Blitzpuppy is on the path to success [1-99] Blitzpuppy is on the path to success [1-99] Blitzpuppy is on the path to success [1-99]
POW survival rates

Marines survived the ordeal of Japanese prison camps at twice the rate of army GIs. What were the factors that accounted for this? Read full article.
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 08 May 08, 11:47
The Doctor's Avatar
The Doctor The Doctor is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
 
Real Name: Dave
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 38,206
The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzpuppy View Post
Marines survived the ordeal of Japanese prison camps at twice the rate of army GIs. What were the factors that accounted for this?
Not many Marines were taken prisoner. Very few of those were captured in the Philippines. Marine POWs mostly came from three groups: 1) The Wake Island defense battalion; 2) China and 3) pilots captured in the Central Pacific and Solomons.

The Marines captured on Wake Island and in China, although horribly mistreated, did not have to endure anything like the Bataan Death March or the POW camps in the Philippines. The pilots who were captured and actually lived long enough to reach POW camps, were mostly sent to camps in Japan; where survival rates were higher than in the Philippines.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08 May 08, 14:57
Mountain Man's Avatar
Mountain Man Mountain Man is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado Rocky Mts, USA
Posts: 53,281
Mountain Man has disabled reputation
So now the victims of the Death March are responsible?

How very PC to avoid discussing the sheer barbarism of the Japanese.
__________________
Ipso custodes, custodiet est?"
"Who watches the watchers"\?"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08 May 08, 16:00
The Doctor's Avatar
The Doctor The Doctor is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
 
Real Name: Dave
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 38,206
The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMan View Post
So now the victims of the Death March are responsible?
Where in the heck did anyone say that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMan
How very PC to avoid discussing the sheer barbarism of the Japanese.
In case you missed it...The question posed by Blitzpuppy was...

"Marines survived the ordeal of Japanese prison camps at twice the rate of army GIs. What were the factors that accounted for this?"

The "sheer barbarism of the Japanese" didn't contribute to the higher survival rate of USMC POWS.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08 May 08, 18:37
Mountain Man's Avatar
Mountain Man Mountain Man is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado Rocky Mts, USA
Posts: 53,281
Mountain Man has disabled reputation
One of my father's closest friends was a former survivor of the Death March.

According to that fellow, no move was made to prepare units for the possibility of surrender or capture, and a lot of strategy was based on the MacArthur doctrine of invincibility and reinforcement right up to final moments when it became apparent that American forces could not hold. Again, according to him, his won unit was demoralized by forces they had been led to believe were inferior, the failure of promised aid to appear, and the news that MacArthur had left the theater of operations, effectively abandoning the troops in the field.

There was also a training factor, in that many of the Army units were often support units such as artillery and so forth, comprising troops who never expected to fight "on the line", as opposed to the Marines, trained as heavy assault forces from the beginning.

However, none of this excuses the barbarism of the Japanese, who went out of their way to torment, torture and butcher their captives at every opportunity.
__________________
Ipso custodes, custodiet est?"
"Who watches the watchers"\?"
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 30 May 08, 21:45
pmririshman's Avatar
pmririshman pmririshman is offline
First Lieutenant
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Carrollton Texas
Posts: 525
pmririshman has disabled reputation
It's not surprising that no marines died during the Bataan Death March since the vast majority of marines were made prisoners of war after the march ended. The march started 10 April, but the majority of marines in the Philippines were stationed on Corregidor Island which did not surrender until 6 May. The article states that the marines on Corregidor took part in the Death March, but even a quick search on the web disproves this. (http://www.nps.gov/archive/wapa/inde...0-00/sec22.htm). Elementary errors such as this does not inspire confidence in the editorial and fact checking process in the office of World War II magazine.
__________________
"The legitimate object of war is a more perfect peace." General William T. Sherman , 20 July 1865
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 18 Jun 11, 07:43
exarmydoc's Avatar
exarmydoc exarmydoc is offline
Sergeant Major
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Georgetown SC
Posts: 323
exarmydoc is on the path to success [1-99] exarmydoc is on the path to success [1-99] exarmydoc is on the path to success [1-99] exarmydoc is on the path to success [1-99]
One reason why Marines taken in the Philippines did better as POWs is this: the Marines mostly did not do any of the bitter fighting on Bataan.

Thousands of Soldiers fought a bitter battle against the Japanese. They lacked everything needed for an army in the field, ammunition, food, medicine. When the Soldiers surrendered on Bataan, they had literally fought to exhaustion and were no longer combat capable(1st Marine Division on was withdrawn drom combat on Guadalcanal in December of 1942 because it was exhausted).

The only Marine unit in the Philippines, the 4th Marine Regiment, remained on Corregidor during the Defense of Bataan. They were better able to survive the Japanese Prison camps because THEY DID NOT FIGHT.

It is abominable to suggest they survived simply because they were better troops.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 18 Jun 11, 07:49
exarmydoc's Avatar
exarmydoc exarmydoc is offline
Sergeant Major
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Georgetown SC
Posts: 323
exarmydoc is on the path to success [1-99] exarmydoc is on the path to success [1-99] exarmydoc is on the path to success [1-99] exarmydoc is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post
Where in the heck did anyone say that?

In case you missed it...The question posed by Blitzpuppy was...

"Marines survived the ordeal of Japanese prison camps at twice the rate of army GIs. What were the factors that accounted for this?"

The "sheer barbarism of the Japanese" didn't contribute to the higher survival rate of USMC POWS.
The sheer barbarism of the Japanese was a factor in why no Marines died on the Bataan Death March.

There were fewer than 50 Marines on the Death March. There were between 10,000 and 15,000 soldiers. If a Japanese guard assaulted an American serviceman, the odds were 200 to 300 to 1 his victim would be a Soldier, not a Marine.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 18 Jun 11, 09:05
101combatvet's Avatar
101combatvet 101combatvet is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Best Pin-Up Of World War II Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Shooter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NYC, Chesapeake Bay or Lima
Posts: 8,308
101combatvet is a jewel in the rough [500]
101combatvet is a jewel in the rough [500] 101combatvet is a jewel in the rough [500] 101combatvet is a jewel in the rough [500] 101combatvet is a jewel in the rough [500] 101combatvet is a jewel in the rough [500] 101combatvet is a jewel in the rough [500] 101combatvet is a jewel in the rough [500] 101combatvet is a jewel in the rough [500] 101combatvet is a jewel in the rough [500] 101combatvet is a jewel in the rough [500]
Ridiculous article in my opinion.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 00:47.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.