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| Summer Campaign 2007 Summer 2007 Tournament. |
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View Poll Results: Who would you vote for?
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Sobieski
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65 |
68.42% |
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Charles
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30 |
31.58% |
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06 Jul 07, 17:13
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ACG Forums - General Staff
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Real Name: Luis Manuel Ribeiro Alves dos Reis
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Valadares - V. N. Gaia
Posts: 5,988
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36-16 for Sobieski. What is it with you fellows and taking Pols over the French?
Sobieski was no match to duGuesclin and he should be even in a bigger struggle with Charles. I've just one word for this voting, overated.
__________________
All warfare is based on deception.
Sun Tzu - Art of war - Chapter One - Laying Plans
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06 Jul 07, 17:16
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Real Name: John "The HUMBLE"
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: APO AE 09131 Hqs EuCom
Posts: 32,088
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Ah Luis, with out ski you would have to be bending to the east 5 times a day. That has to be worth someting 
HP
__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you"
NO one wins a war!!!! They just lose less.
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06 Jul 07, 20:33
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: KGNW
Posts: 1,240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint
Ah Luis, with out ski you would have to be bending to the east 5 times a day. That has to be worth someting
HP |
Yes, it's a good reason, but I wonder Sobieski's result is depend only on the actual politic situation? 
If yes, I think that during cold war in similar poll, the winner should be another "ski" - Mareshal Pilsudski (he stopped Red Army in 1920). 
Salve |
06 Jul 07, 20:49
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: KGNW
Posts: 1,240
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From a later Polish perspective, help to Habsburgs was a great misteke.
The period of Polish-Austrian friendship did not last long, as Charles V of Lorraine began downplaying the role of John III Sobieski and his troops in the battle. Neither Sobieski nor the Commonwealth profited significantly from saving Austria, on the contrary, the battle of Vienna also cleared the path towards the forming of the future Austrian Empire (1804 to 1867) and the destruction of the Commonwealth. In 1772 and 1795 the Habsburg Monarchy took part in the first and third partitions of Poland, which wiped the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth off the maps of Europe.
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06 Jul 07, 21:47
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ACG Forums - Legatus Janitorus
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Real Name: Wes
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Permian Basin
Posts: 18,950
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The Lion of Lehistan over Charles the Terrible - hands down!
What can I say... the names given one, by ones enemies, are oft times quite telling of the man.
Sobieski for the win!
__________________
On the Plains of Hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of victory, sat down to rest-and resting... died. Adlai E. Stevenson
ACG History Today
BoRG
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06 Jul 07, 23:55
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Real Name: Josh
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 303
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Sobieski for me
__________________
All war is based on deception. - Sun Tzu
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07 Jul 07, 14:21
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Real Name: Kent A. Snyder
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Williamsburg, Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 849
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Sobieski easily.
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07 Jul 07, 16:54
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ACG Forums - General Staff
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Real Name: Luis Manuel Ribeiro Alves dos Reis
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Valadares - V. N. Gaia
Posts: 5,988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint
Ah Luis, with out ski you would have to be bending to the east 5 times a day. That has to be worth someting
HP |
I ear you, loud and clear.
__________________
All warfare is based on deception.
Sun Tzu - Art of war - Chapter One - Laying Plans
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08 Jul 07, 04:28
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 3
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Hi,
In assessing the two candidates, one has to consider the whole context and not just the direct impact on the battlefield. As CyberRanger has noted, Charles 'the Bold' had various names, yet if you consider the complex geographical locations of the Bergundain state and his overall achievements in combining these very different provinces to consider themselves one state as we today consider one's country to be. The logistics alone, he successfully established the 'un-achievable' in forming his feudal holdings in an early nation state. Despite being situated between two very large and powerful neighbours, he had little option but to risk all in his gameplan, or be overwhelmed. Unlike other leading figures of his time, when faced with ultimate defeat he did not 'run and hide' instead he went down fighting to the end.
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08 Jul 07, 12:53
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Real Name: Chris
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 8,120
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No contest. Sobieski. Visionary leader.
__________________
Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
(J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)
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10 Jul 07, 00:02
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Real Name: Michael Beecher
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 3,241
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I still think Charles.
I'm starting to feel as outnumbered as most of these generals were.
__________________
"Yellowstain!"
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10 Jul 07, 14:01
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Real Name: Adam Harmon
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ririe, Idaho (Pop. 600)
Posts: 394
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Bold for me.
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10 Jul 07, 15:55
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Real Name: Chris
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 8,120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzer Rookie
...yet if you consider the complex geographical locations of the Burgundian state and his overall achievements in combining these very different provinces to consider themselves one state as we today consider one's country to be. The logistics alone, he successfully established the 'un-achievable' in forming his feudal holdings in an early nation-state.
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The Burgundians as a tribe had been doing this for some time and managed to cling together and even produce one of the earliest 'barbarian' codes of laws. There's even some 'Dark Ages' gossip that they were the descendants of Roman survivors from the Teutoberger Wald battle of 9CE who made it out to the East before eventually returning West.
__________________
Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
(J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)
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13 Jul 07, 21:07
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: COP Peacemaker
Posts: 594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint
Ah Luis, with out ski you would have to be bending to the east 5 times a day. That has to be worth someting
HP |
Hp -
AS always, you have not only inspired me - but you have motivated me into stop being lazy and actually type - which usually I only do when I'm mad - or in this tournament - voting for the less-popular leaders!
Since it seems I have voted for the "wrong" guy about 60% of the time thus far... I'm going to leave you with the "wrong" quote here... "Sanka - You dead, mon?"
Anyone know the team or movie?!? If you answer correctly, Ed McMann will come to your door with a check for $10,000,000 from Publishers Clearing House*!!!
(*) not really, dude!
__________________
CPT T
Field Artillery
BDE S3 - Peacemaker 3 - OIF 09
FSO - 1BCT, 3ID - OIF III
"Loved or Hated... Never Ignored... COLT sticks it deep!"
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14 Jul 07, 06:52
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ACG Forums - Legatus Janitorus
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Real Name: Wes
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Permian Basin
Posts: 18,950
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Jamaican Bobsled Team - Cool Runnings
__________________
On the Plains of Hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of victory, sat down to rest-and resting... died. Adlai E. Stevenson
ACG History Today
BoRG
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