Grossdeutschland at Voronezh, 1942

[galex]

On the 28th of June 1942, the 24th Panzer Division, flanked by the Grossdeutschland and the 16th motorised division, began the advance towards Voronezh. My question is : did the Grossdeutschland division entered Voronezh or stayed outside the city ?

[Geek44]

According to a memoir I read called 'The Forgotten Soldier' by Guy Sajer
They did enter the city.
If you haven't read it, this book is still in print and is very good.

[Salinator]

Originally Posted by Geek44

According to a memoir I read called 'The Forgotten Soldier' by Guy Sajer
They did enter the city.
If you haven't read it, this book is still in print and is very good.

Yes, a fantastic book. I read it like about 25 years ago. The poor guy was from Alsasc-Lorraine and had a miserable time on the eastern front. I can still remember him discribing how the Russian infantry can shake the ground when they charge across a plain.

[Geek44]

I will never forget his account of the train.

Freezing cold...here comes a train pushing flat cars loaded with Russian prisoners, many in bare feet. They had piled their dead toward the front as a wind break. Standing room only. The whole purpose was to detonate mines on the track...you just know none of the poor buggers survived.
I cried when he left his friend at the end of the war and never saw him again.

[Salinator]

Originally Posted by Geek44

I will never forget his account of the train.

Freezing cold...here comes a train pushing flat cars loaded with Russian prisoners, many in bare feet. They had piled their dead toward the front as a wind break. Standing room only. The whole purpose was to detonate mines on the track...you just know none of the poor buggers survived.
I cried when he left his friend at the end of the war and never saw him again.

The entire book was an eye-opener and tearjerker. I gotta find me a copy and read it again. His length of service and numerous observations taught me a lot, like the part when they were desparately trying to remove their GD armbands so as not to get shot by the Russians when taken prisioner because they would be mistaken for SS. Their horror when they realised that the material under the armband were not faded.

[Geek44]

As I said...it's still in print. They carry it at Borders here which is a US bookstore I think.
I've read it several times (yeah I'm one of THOSE types).
Amazing book.

[Salinator]

Originally Posted by Geek44

As I said...it's still in print. They carry it at Borders here which is a US bookstore I think.
I've read it several times (yeah I'm one of THOSE types).
Amazing book.

I love the hunt in a used bookstore, besides I'm American................that huge gun budget doesn't allow much left to purchase books new.

[Carl Schwamberg]

My favorite chapter was the last. After returning to France he was required to prove his loyalty by servng in the French army. After a short while they gave him ahis discharge as his commander thught he was infecting the 18 year old consccripts with a bad attitude. He decribed the training sgt as a overweight fellow who spent the war in PoW camp getting regular meals under a roof.

[STURMBOCK]

That fine you know this book in USA,its really a great book.Guy Sajer is always alive I think and make science fiction comics and his author's name is Dimitri.
I know a alsacian veteran of the 17 SS PzGren division,and I served in the french army during the german campaignin 1945.

[C. Ankerstjerne]

Memoirs are never good sources, though, and in this case possibly even less so. Sajer's book is highly inaccurate, borderline fiction.

[Psycho]

Originally Posted by C. Ankerstjerne

Memoirs are never good sources, though, and in this case possibly even less so. Sajer's book is highly inaccurate, borderline fiction.

I've heard this a couple of times as well. GD historian said there was no record of Sajer serving in the unit and pointed out many inaccuracies in his book. Later on he is said to have conceeded that he might possibly have been in the unit IIRC.

[Andy L]

...is a little hazy on the subject but does say on page 58

'There the 2nd Regiment's task to seize the great railway bridge spanning the Don was unsuccessful for the spearhead units were too weak in number...'

and

'The 1st Regiment's objective was a road bridge at Semiluki and it says much for the confidence of the German commanders in their men and the extent of the disruption to the Soviet opposition that only a single platoon was detailed to carry out reconnaissance....'

followed by

'The first SP guns were brought across to support the advance on voronezh but both Grenadier regiments had been exhauseted by the continuous fighting and all that could be achieved was a junction and amalgamation of their bridgeheads.

Voronezh fell to other troops and the first part of Hitler's strategic plan can be siad to have been successfully completed.'

Hope this helps a little.

Andy

[Geek44]

ahh come on Salinator...maybe you could trade in one of your smaller guns. Your M60 perhaps? It's worth the read even if it may be inaccurate?

[Salinator]

Originally Posted by Geek44

ahh come on Salinator...maybe you could trade in one of your smaller guns. Your M60 perhaps? It's worth the read even if it may be inaccurate?

Nah, what would I use for suppression fire in case of infatata in my neighborhood?
Can't rely on my mini-gun because it chews through ammo, and my mortar might cause too much collateral damage.

[Geek44]

True...how many nukes do you personally own? Maybe one of those...it's a VERY good book