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  #1  
Old 04 Oct 17, 08:46
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Maybe we should learn from this....

preserved for the future.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-f...where-41427733
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  #2  
Old 04 Oct 17, 13:30
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And your point is...what?
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  #3  
Old 06 Oct 17, 16:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massena View Post
And your point is...what?
That we should leave statues of traitors alone.
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  #4  
Old 06 Oct 17, 18:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Evans View Post
That we should leave statues of traitors alone.
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  #5  
Old 06 Oct 17, 19:40
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I don't think its treason that is being objected to
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  #6  
Old 06 Oct 17, 22:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Evans View Post
That we should leave statues of traitors alone.
Does history offend you?
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  #7  
Old 06 Oct 17, 22:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American87 View Post
Does history offend you?
History doesn't, but the lionization of traitors does.
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  #8  
Old 07 Oct 17, 12:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Evans View Post
History doesn't, but the lionization of traitors does.


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  #9  
Old 07 Oct 17, 20:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Evans View Post
History doesn't, but the lionization of traitors does.
But given the place and,paticulatly,the time, was the sailor a traitor .?
Given that Estonia was not an independent nation at the time the work was produced, who was he betraying ?

It should be remembered that the captain of the Red October (book by Tom Clancy and the character played by Connery in the film), known as "The Vilnius Schoolmaster" and was therefore Lithuanian.
A traitor ?

Again,that's what Clancy may have had in mind,Was the USSR an viable entity to all? Interesting point: it's certainly not clear-cut.
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Last edited by BELGRAVE; 07 Oct 17 at 21:16..
  #10  
Old 07 Oct 17, 23:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Evans View Post
History doesn't, but the lionization of traitors does.
Secession wasn't illegal until Texas v. White was decided in the Supreme Court in 1869. The Confederates interpreted the constitution one way, the Northerners another. It was similar to the American Revolution.
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Old 08 Oct 17, 06:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American87 View Post
Secession wasn't illegal until Texas v. White was decided in the Supreme Court in 1869. The Confederates interpreted the constitution one way, the Northerners another. It was similar to the American Revolution.
1869? What is the date today?
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  #12  
Old 08 Oct 17, 08:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American87 View Post
Secession wasn't illegal until Texas v. White was decided in the Supreme Court in 1869. The Confederates interpreted the constitution one way, the Northerners another. It was similar to the American Revolution.
It was not similar to the American Revolution at all.

The American colonists were not part of Great Britain, but a colony and were treated as such. The Americans wanted to be treated as Englishmen and were not.

The South was an integral part of the United States, not a colony.

That's the main difference.

The other one is that the cause of the Civil War was slavery. That wasn't the case with the American Revolution.
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  #13  
Old 08 Oct 17, 10:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BELGRAVE View Post
But given the place and,paticulatly,the time, was the sailor a traitor .?
Given that Estonia was not an independent nation at the time the work was produced, who was he betraying ?

It should be remembered that the captain of the Red October (book by Tom Clancy and the character played by Connery in the film), known as "The Vilnius Schoolmaster" and was therefore Lithuanian.
A traitor ?

Again,that's what Clancy may have had in mind,Was the USSR an viable entity to all? Interesting point: it's certainly not clear-cut.
We weren't discussing the OP but the OP's intent which is to say, in a backhand way, that statues honoring Confederate leaders (traitors) should be left alone. If the OP's intent wasn't that then why is it here in the American Civil War Forum?
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Old 08 Oct 17, 17:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Evans View Post
History doesn't, but the lionization of traitors does.
They weren't traitors, but southerner soldiers fighting for their families and homes, and for the right to govern themselves according to the rules set forth by the Founding Fathers - States' Rights. From their point of view, the North betrayed them.

The Founding Fathers of America, OTH, really were "traitors", since the British government was the established and legal government at the time.

See what happens when you "interpret" history" from a single narrow point of view?
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Old 08 Oct 17, 17:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Evans View Post
We weren't discussing the OP but the OP's intent which is to say, in a backhand way, that statues honoring Confederate leaders (traitors) should be left alone. If the OP's intent wasn't that then why is it here in the American Civil War Forum?
The statues and monuments commemorate history, and should be left where they are so that we can learn from them. We already have generations of young people who are critically ignorant of any real history at all, let alone our own American history.
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