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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East > Syrian Civil War, 2011 - ?

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Syrian Civil War, 2011 - ? From a local uprising to a proxy war, we discuss the chaos in Syria.

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  #1  
Old 04 Oct 17, 13:07
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ISIS Captures 2 Russians from Wagner Army

So it turns out in the most dangerous sectors in Syria where high casualties are expected, Moscow sends a private mercenary army called the "Wagner Army" to do the fighting there.

If the mercenaries are killed or wounded, Putin can got on television and claim that "Russian army sustained no casualties" which is technically true, because the Wagner people are not regulars.

My best guess is these "mercenaries" are "discharged" from the army only for the duration of the conflict so their presence can be denied if captured. So this is the continuation of the same charade and deception that Putin originated in Crimea.

http://www.newsweek.com/isis-release...g-syria-677106
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  #2  
Old 04 Oct 17, 14:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterZero View Post
So it turns out in the most dangerous sectors in Syria where high casualties are expected, Moscow sends a private mercenary army called the "Wagner Army" to do the fighting there.

If the mercenaries are killed or wounded, Putin can got on television and claim that "Russian army sustained no casualties" which is technically true, because the Wagner people are not regulars.

My best guess is these "mercenaries" are "discharged" from the army only for the duration of the conflict so their presence can be denied if captured. So this is the continuation of the same charade and deception that Putin originated in Crimea.

http://www.newsweek.com/isis-release...g-syria-677106
Indeed none of the Soviets who fought in Spain were regulars under that definition (but again neither were any of the Germans or Italians)
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  #3  
Old 04 Oct 17, 15:32
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Originally Posted by MonsterZero View Post
So it turns out in the most dangerous sectors in Syria where high casualties are expected, Moscow sends a private mercenary army called the "Wagner Army" to do the fighting there.
In other words a usual PMC:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_military_company
Invented and mostly run by Western democracies, oops.
The presence of Russian regular forces, including special operations, in Syria is well known and they operate without guises. And right, PVC are not regular military either "technically" or factually.

Last edited by Artyom_A; 04 Oct 17 at 18:12..
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Old 04 Oct 17, 16:10
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Poor b******s.
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  #5  
Old 04 Oct 17, 16:40
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Yeap, private military like notorious Blackwater were just Russian fake news .
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Old 04 Oct 17, 22:50
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Cossack conscripts

No one in Russia would actually want to earn big bucks to play soldier.

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Yeap, private military like notorious Blackwater were just Russian fake news .
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Old 05 Oct 17, 10:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyom_A View Post
In other words a usual PMC:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_military_company
Invented and mostly run by Western democracies, oops.
The presence of Russian regular forces, including special operations, in Syria is well known and they operate without guises. And right, PVC are not regular military either "technically" or factually.
You're kind of way out on a limb if the defense is that the US implemented a throughly bad idea a decade before your government did.

Why is it that Russia insists on emulating the things the US gets wrong, but not the things it gets right?
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Old 05 Oct 17, 11:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyom_A View Post
Yeap, private military like notorious Blackwater were just Russian fake news .
Its universal, I was very happy to see Russian pilots dropping me supplies in 2008. Great bunch of guys: http://archive.defense.gov/news/news....aspx?id=50285

I still owe those guys a few beers...
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Old 06 Oct 17, 02:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan Banér View Post
You're kind of way out on a limb if the defense is that the US implemented a throughly bad idea a decade before your government did.

Why is it that Russia insists on emulating the things the US gets wrong, but not the things it gets right?
Because Russians are copycat suckers and will copy everything the Americans do. This has certain advantages, like planting fake ideas hoping that Moscow will emulate them. Like "Star Wars" under President Reagan. Pure fantasy, impossible, the technology didn't exist and it was not possible to create it. But Moscow spent billions of rubles trying to create the Soviet version of Star Wars. And we thank them for helping to bankrupt their country.
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Old 06 Oct 17, 04:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterZero View Post
Because Russians are copycat suckers and will copy everything the Americans do. This has certain advantages, like planting fake ideas hoping that Moscow will emulate them. Like "Star Wars" under President Reagan. Pure fantasy, impossible, the technology didn't exist and it was not possible to create it. But Moscow spent billions of rubles trying to create the Soviet version of Star Wars. And we thank them for helping to bankrupt their country.
Really, I think that overestimates the duplicity of the Americans, and the stupidity of the Soviets.

Star Wars might have given them the heebie-jeebies, but I've yet to see a credible exposition of how specifically that, rather than the general impossibility of the Soviet economy and military spending overall, which spelled the demise of the USSR.

Greater error on the Soviet part seems to have been to declare personal computers a "fad" back in the day, only to realize another and new kind of "gap" was opening to the west rather too late.

The Russian preoccupation with all things American is palpable of course. But I've yet to see evidence that the Americans are skillful and conscious enough to actively exploit that. Except the Russians also seem inclined to see Americans in every bush, and so lend credence to stories of US omnipotence. Makes their defense against it, whatever that might be, justifiable in their own eyes.
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Old 06 Oct 17, 04:40
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You're kind of way out on a limb if the defense is that the US implemented a throughly bad idea a decade before your government did.
Where was I defending or criticizing something? The point was that private military or mercenaries are universal phenomenon. And then private military are not some state forces in disguise, they don't belong to state armed forces by the very definition.
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Old 06 Oct 17, 09:20
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The point was that private military or mercenaries are universal phenomenon. And then private military are not some state forces in disguise, they don't belong to state armed forces by the very definition.
The proper and acceptable political term is...."contractors".

Most of what the US is doing in the Middle East is done by contractors. They are cheaper than traditional military units and don't require veteran's benefits, retirement, post deployment healthcare, etc. Whether it's "security" work, logistics, construction, etc. there are thousands of them.
If contractors are hurt or killed, the political impact is not the same as when Soldiers are lost. Its just a BS game at a high level.
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Old 06 Oct 17, 11:34
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Looks like reports about mercenaries/contractors involvement in Syria surfaced in Russian media 2 years ago:
http://www.fontanka.ru/2015/10/16/118/
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