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  #91  
Old 08 Jan 17, 00:41
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Originally Posted by R. Evans View Post
Great, another book I need to read.

Is that highly recommended? Chickamauga is one of the few battles that I have not read a book just about that battle.
And certainly Failure in the Saddle is a specialized study, not an overall examination of the battle.
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  #92  
Old 08 Jan 17, 13:48
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Originally Posted by guthrieba View Post
And certainly Failure in the Saddle is a specialized study, not an overall examination of the battle.
Powell's trilogy, A Mad Irregular Battle, Glory or the Grave and Barren Victory,however, covers the battle and it's aftermath critical, detailed, informative and readable. What's not to like? Nothing.
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  #93  
Old 08 Jan 17, 15:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grognard View Post
Powell's trilogy, A Mad Irregular Battle, Glory or the Grave and Barren Victory,however, covers the battle and it's aftermath critical, detailed, informative and readable. What's not to like? Nothing.
Thanks.
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  #94  
Old 09 Jan 17, 14:59
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I offer the following for consideration. Now I am not sure I fully buy what I am about to bring forth, but it is something I am thinking over.

Chickamauga-Chattanooga 1863 specifically what happened in between and the utter defeat of Bragg's force at Chattanooga.

What would get the attention of France, UK? What would be a single big victory for the CSA? They had to bag/destroy a major federal army. They needed to bag either the Army of the Potomac, Army of the Tennessee, or Army of the Cumberland. Their last best chance at having their own Saratoga would be in the days following Chickamauga. They had a manpower advantage and they had the Army of the Cumberland bottled up. Now would it have been easy, or even possible I don't know, but that late it was for the rebels one of if not the best chance at getting one of the Federal major armies. Instead what happens is the rebels bungle the opportunity, and rather than bag an army they get sent retreating (some even routed) back to Georgia and Longstreet goes back east. For me I see a great divergence between if Bragg had been able to have a victory against Rosecrans before Grant and reinforcements get there vs what happened.

The impacts of the battle of Chattanooga is the AotC army is no longer threatened, the Army of Tennessee is defeated and sent retreating and their success at Chickamauga is reversed, Bragg is canned, the veterans of the AotC redeem themselves, the veterans of 11th and 12th Corp prove their mettle to the westerners, Thomas secures his spot as head of AotC, Sheridan catches Grants eye, Chattanooga is secured, and the AotT and AotC are able to combine and focus against the Army of the Tennessee setting the stage for the Atlanta campaign is set and Grant is comfortable enough to head east. The position of the war changed greatly from before to after the Battle of Chattanooga.
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  #95  
Old 10 Jan 17, 09:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Bob View Post
I offer the following for consideration. Now I am not sure I fully buy what I am about to bring forth, but it is something I am thinking over.

Chickamauga-Chattanooga 1863 specifically what happened in between and the utter defeat of Bragg's force at Chattanooga.

What would get the attention of France, UK? What would be a single big victory for the CSA? They had to bag/destroy a major federal army. They needed to bag either the Army of the Potomac, Army of the Tennessee, or Army of the Cumberland. Their last best chance at having their own Saratoga would be in the days following Chickamauga. They had a manpower advantage and they had the Army of the Cumberland bottled up. Now would it have been easy, or even possible I don't know, but that late it was for the rebels one of if not the best chance at getting one of the Federal major armies. Instead what happens is the rebels bungle the opportunity, and rather than bag an army they get sent retreating (some even routed) back to Georgia and Longstreet goes back east. For me I see a great divergence between if Bragg had been able to have a victory against Rosecrans before Grant and reinforcements get there vs what happened.

The impacts of the battle of Chattanooga is the AotC army is no longer threatened, the Army of Tennessee is defeated and sent retreating and their success at Chickamauga is reversed, Bragg is canned, the veterans of the AotC redeem themselves, the veterans of 11th and 12th Corp prove their mettle to the westerners, Thomas secures his spot as head of AotC, Sheridan catches Grants eye, Chattanooga is secured, and the AotT and AotC are able to combine and focus against the Army of the Tennessee setting the stage for the Atlanta campaign is set and Grant is comfortable enough to head east. The position of the war changed greatly from before to after the Battle of Chattanooga.
England and France would not have intervened after the Emancipation Proclamation.
That said, it was possible for the South to win--barely possible. IMHO. If they forces the Yanks out of Chattanooga the Yanks have a starting point further North in Tennessee, Knoxville is threatened and does Grant stay in the west to reclaim Chattanooga? Probably. That obviously gives Lee an advantage in 1864 no Grant to contend with.
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  #96  
Old 25 Sep 17, 11:18
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Lightbulb Chancellorsville for a different reason

Studying the ACW because of Tac's game
and finding ACG's subforum a treasure trove

My take on the thread's question is: Chancellorsville.

Not because Lee lost here his best general, Jackson, who MIGHT have won Gettysburg for him but for something entirely different
namely because of the unchallengable status the victory at Chancellorsville bestowed on general Lee. After his victory here his soldiers would follow him anywhere, do whatever he told them to.

This to me seems of to have the greatest of impacts because after the ACW was over and the North had won, Lee told his men to quit fighting, to go home and live long and peacefull lives (I am paraphrasing now).
Such was Lee's charisma, solidified at Chancellorsville, that his men swallowed the bitter pill of defeat, did what their general Lee told them, went home and didn't engage the enemy anymore, giving peace a chance.
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  #97  
Old 25 Sep 17, 16:07
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Vicksburg.

All of the exerts that i have read about said the battle that sealed the fate of the confederacy was vicksburg. It cut the confederacy in half .

Bill
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  #98  
Old 25 Sep 17, 16:24
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I would say Gettysburg and Vicksburg.
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  #99  
Old 01 Oct 17, 01:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Sennef View Post
Studying the ACW because of Tac's game
and finding ACG's subforum a treasure trove

My take on the thread's question is: Chancellorsville.

Not because Lee lost here his best general, Jackson, who MIGHT have won Gettysburg for him but for something entirely different
namely because of the unchallengable status the victory at Chancellorsville bestowed on general Lee. After his victory here his soldiers would follow him anywhere, do whatever he told them to.

This to me seems of to have the greatest of impacts because after the ACW was over and the North had won, Lee told his men to quit fighting, to go home and live long and peacefull lives (I am paraphrasing now).
Such was Lee's charisma, solidified at Chancellorsville, that his men swallowed the bitter pill of defeat, did what their general Lee told them, went home and didn't engage the enemy anymore, giving peace a chance.
Chancellorsville had an enormous impact on both sides no doubt about it. The ANV was at it's peak as a fighting machine as it prepared for the battle, one could argue it was the high water mark.
The AoP was conflicted, demoralized and poorly lead. Both sides suffered heavy losses, 14K casualties for the Union, 10K for Lee's force.
The Union lost, that is undeniable, but Lee's army lost of Jackson and 10K well seasoned and trained fighters would prove impossible to replace.
Beyond the losses and gains on the battlefield, Chancellorsville IMO was a lesson not learned by the South. It proved the strategy the South had adopted, one big victory, was flawed, but that lesson was ignored. The loss galvanized the Union, it did not force the North to negotiate with the CSA.
The organization the Union had developed was outpacing the ability of the CSA to rearm and replace losses of both men and everything needed to repel the Union forces operating deep in the South.
Which battle was the most important?
The answer as always is,
The Next One.
The Union had many problems, and while some units operating at the far reaches of the lines of supplies experienced some shortages, as a whole, the Union did not suffer the shortages the South faced.
Consider that New Orleans was the most populated city in the South in 1860, and one of the busiest seaports in the USA before the war.
The loss of New Orleans and Vicksburg were strategic to the economic survival of the CSA, Chancellorsville was not, Gettysburg, if the CSA had managed to win it, would not have changed the economic crisis that facing the South.
The greatest defeat the South suffered was economic, and that was a direct result of Davis's mishandling of resources, namely his insane decision not to release for sale to Great Britain the record cotton harvest of 1860. An interesting side note to that episode is that as one Southern town after another fell to the Union, much of the cotton held in those warehouses ended up in the holds of Union vessels and eventually to Northern mills.
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  #100  
Old 01 Oct 17, 10:35
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EDIT: I missed 1st Manassas in the OP. I apologize. The 1st Battle of Bull Run (First Manassas). It was the battle that convinced both sides it was not going to be an easy 90 day war.
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  #101  
Old 03 Oct 17, 22:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American87 View Post
Which battle had the biggest impact on the war, and why? I'm not gonna list a poll because the question is intentionaly vague, seeing that multiple battles had huge impacts on the course of events.

Was it First Bull Run that steeled the North for conflict?

Was it Shiloh that foreshadowed the human cost of the war?

Was it Seven Pines that incapacitated Johnston?

Was it Antietam that opened the way for the Emancipation Proclomation?

What battle had the biggest impact on the war, and why?
First Manassas because it showed that the war was not going to be a walkover like so many thought.
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  #102  
Old 12 Oct 17, 19:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American87 View Post
Which battle had the biggest impact on the war, and why? I'm not gonna list a poll because the question is intentionaly vague, seeing that multiple battles had huge impacts on the course of events.

Was it First Bull Run that steeled the North for conflict?

Was it Shiloh that foreshadowed the human cost of the war?

Was it Seven Pines that incapacitated Johnston?

Was it Antietam that opened the way for the Emancipation Proclomation?

What battle had the biggest impact on the war, and why?
I don't think you can list just one but I think New Orleans was a big one. Shiloh would be my second pick. Had the Confederacy pushed Grant into the river several things might have been different.
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  #103  
Old 14 Oct 17, 08:36
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Splitting the Confederates in two ranks at my top of the list. Vicksburg then New Orleans and Mobile.
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  #104  
Old 14 Oct 17, 15:02
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While somewhat unsure, but after some level of brain storming, I am going to nominate the Battle of Chickamauga. While it is portrayed as a great Confederate victory, I do not see it that way at all. The key to killing the Confederate Insurrection was its manpower problem, and its related issue of having an appropriate leadership command over that manpower. The insurrectionist government simply could not afford another costly 20,000 plus loss in manpower, with this battle being the feather that broke the camel's back. Even more importantly, the seen failure to destroy the Federal Army and freely march to liberate Tennessee was a fatal blow to morale, which lead to another blow, but more fatal one: to the enrollment of new troops into the Insurrectionist Armies. Here, after the fatal battle, the Confederate Army of Tennessee was reduced to little more than an organization for the mass slaughter of southern poor white males non slaveholders. The disaster at Chattanooga, that followed, is only more proof that this thesis is correct. The brutal slaughter sites later, around Atlanta and finally that of Nashville, seals it up for me.
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  #105  
Old 16 Oct 17, 10:48
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I always thought that Seven Pines had the greatest impact on the war, namely with the wounding of Joe Johnson. It seems that if Johnson was not wounded the Peninsula campaign was all but destined to become a siege and, therefore, a Union Victory.

Lee taking command of the Army of Northern Virginia was the greatest event in the short lived history of the southern confederacy.

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