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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Europe

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Europe Issues of modern Europe.

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  #46  
Old 30 Sep 17, 22:57
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Will do my best:
Thank you kind sir(s) (inc. Mark and Ljadw).

How do the laenders play in all this?

Tuebor
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  #47  
Old 01 Oct 17, 13:33
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Originally Posted by Tuebor View Post
Thank you kind sir(s) (inc. Mark and Ljadw).

How do the laenders play in all this?

Tuebor
Regarding the Bundestag (Federal Diet) they simply do not. The districts (Wahlbezirke) seem not to cross state borders, but that's it.

Take note though, that we (like quite a lot of countries) have two chambers of parliament, one if the Federal Diet (Bundestag), the other is the Federal Council (Bundesrat). There the states are represented, many laws requiring the consent of this chamber to a degree.

The Federal Council is not directly elected though, instead, the governments of each state send their representatives there. You are American? Just imagine instead of voting for your senators, your state governor sends them to the Senate (or on occasions goes there himself). Also, the states with the lowest populations get two seats, while states with higher populations can get up to six seats (and corresponding votes).
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  #48  
Old 01 Oct 17, 13:43
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Actually in America the Senators were once chosen by the state legislatures where the governor had a big say. Many of the old great Senators like Daniel Webster were sent to Washington, and did not go through election. The senior Senator in each state got to appoint Federal job appointments, like inspector of the Port of New Orleans. This could encourage a large amount of kickbacks.

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  #49  
Old 02 Oct 17, 14:01
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Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
Actually in America the Senators were once chosen by the state legislatures where the governor had a big say. Many of the old great Senators like Daniel Webster were sent to Washington, and did not go through election. The senior Senator in each state got to appoint Federal job appointments, like inspector of the Port of New Orleans. This could encourage a large amount of kickbacks.

Pruitt
Interesting, didn't know about that. I actually do not know how the system works exactly for who gets to go to Berlin. I DO know, that I have seen Ministerpraesidenten (state governors) at the Federal Council. Since they are rather busy governing their state, I suspect one of two things:
a) the Federal Council meets not that often, voting down on a whole bunch of legislation (course of action having been decided quite some time before), or
b) what person represents a state is rather flexible. Members of the Federal council do not get to vote as they please, they have to vote en bloc and how their government dictates.

So checking wikipedia, and the answer is:
only governors and their ministers may be members of the Federal Council. Once the representatives are chosen, the other ministers are customarily made substitute representatives.

A note on voting, a state has to vote en bloc. If it does not, the entire vote of the state is forfeit. Technically, this does not mean that they have to choose how the governor wants, but since they apparently can be cashiered by the state government at any time, well, thinks would have to be rather foul within a state's government to become an issue. It is telling that it became an issue not until the early 2000's.
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  #50  
Old 02 Oct 17, 14:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acheron View Post
Regarding the Bundestag (Federal Diet) they simply do not. The districts (Wahlbezirke) seem not to cross state borders, but that's it.

Take note though, that we (like quite a lot of countries) have two chambers of parliament, one if the Federal Diet (Bundestag), the other is the Federal Council (Bundesrat). There the states are represented, many laws requiring the consent of this chamber to a degree.

The Federal Council is not directly elected though, instead, the governments of each state send their representatives there. You are American? Just imagine instead of voting for your senators, your state governor sends them to the Senate (or on occasions goes there himself). Also, the states with the lowest populations get two seats, while states with higher populations can get up to six seats (and corresponding votes).
The system of the Bundesrat is not much different from the system of the Reichsrat during the Empire and Weimar : the Reichsrat was the watchdog who had to prevent that the Reichsregierung was overstepping its competence (what the states feared and what would happen, and what is happening today ).
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  #51  
Old 03 Oct 17, 15:24
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Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
The system of the Bundesrat is not much different from the system of the Reichsrat during the Empire and Weimar : the Reichsrat was the watchdog who had to prevent that the Reichsregierung was overstepping its competence (what the states feared and what would happen, and what is happening today ).
No.

The constitution of the first Weimar Republic made no mention of political parties at all, they were at best seen as a necessary evil, that had no place in the blueprints of an idealistic document, granting the people full-sovereignty at last.. When the constitution of the Federal Republic was crafted, the reality of how a democratic system actually works was recognized, as the constitution recognizes and regulates how political parties work.

It is safe to assume, that those founding the constitution recognized the not unlikely possibility that one party would have the majority in both chambers of parliament.

The job of keeping the executive in check is, as usual, taken by the legislative and especially by the judicative. The German constitutional court has stepped in when it felt that laws or policies are unconstitutional. However, it has also repeatedly declared that government and parliament have a high amount of leeway.
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