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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Weapons of War > Air Power

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Air Power A place to discuss the implements of War in the Air!

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  #31  
Old 05 Apr 17, 17:32
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The F-15 is still in production and the newest models are way ahead of the F-15C. They could buy a few of these plus some A/F 18's and a few F-16's.

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  #32  
Old 06 Apr 17, 04:09
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I say buy more F-22 mostly because the F-15Cs are getting old and the U.S.A.F. needs to also look at replacing the Strike Eagles as well.
Though it keeps being mentioned, the production restart of F-22 is probably beyond any justification based on cost and capability. The other answer is to upgrade old Eagles to something in excess of the SA variant now on its way to the Sheiks. F-35 is nominally replacing the Strike Eagles.

The T/X and OA-X programmes are an interesting move for an air force traditionally against light combat types.
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  #33  
Old 07 Apr 17, 23:40
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In the 2009-2012 time frame Boeing spent a fair amount of R&D funds on the “Silent Eagle” concept which included a considerable reduction in forward quarter signature and internal weapons carriage in the conformal fuel tanks. For a while it looked like the Israelis were interested but that did not lead to any sales. My guess is that the bill for the further development of the concept is what is stopping the interest.


Last edited by Achtung Baby; 09 Apr 17 at 05:23..
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  #34  
Old 08 Apr 17, 14:31
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It is probably an optical illusion, but have the changed the intake geometry?

Suppose it is the same school of thought as the Advanced Super Hornet with the upgraded on-board electronics, conform tanks and the ventral weapons pod.
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  #35  
Old 08 Apr 17, 17:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenose View Post
It is probably an optical illusion, but have the changed the intake geometry?
[.....]
Most visiting the "Air Power" sub-forum would, or should, be aware of the variable intake ramps(or slight variations) found on most, if not all, 3rd/4th gen. supersonic aircraft.

Quote:
An intake ramp is a rectangular, plate-like device within the air intake of a jet engine, designed to generate a number of shock waves to aid the inlet compression process at supersonic speeds.
The ramp sits at an acute angle to deflect the intake air from the longitudinal direction. At supersonic flight speeds, the deflection of the air stream creates a number of oblique shock waves
at each change of gradient along at the ramp. Air crossing each shock wave suddenly slows to a lower Mach number, thus increasing pressure.
[.....]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intake_ramp

Caption for the below image:

Quote:
An F-15 with its two intake ramps in different positions
When on the ground(and whilst below supersonic speeds) the intake is normally in the "up" position - unlike the image in post #33.

http://aviation.stackexchange.com/qu...-vs-a-2d-inlet
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Ramps.jpg (13.3 KB, 4 views)
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Last edited by At ease; 08 Apr 17 at 17:52..
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  #36  
Old 08 Apr 17, 17:50
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Wasn't there some constraints as to how much stealth Boeing could actually use on an export model?
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  #37  
Old 09 Apr 17, 05:17
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Quote:
Most visiting the "Air Power" sub-forum would, or should, be aware of the variable intake ramps(or slight variations) found on most, if not all, 3rd/4th gen. supersonic aircraft.
Wow, what an unnecessarily patronizing response. I happen, as someone who works with Boeing on their fighter aircraft programmes, to be slightly aware of that, ta. It appears - and as I said is probably an illusion - that the geometry of the intake (rather than then internal working which is where you will find the intake ramp, BTW, so I was not talking about the internal air flow management and if I had I would have been specific) had altered.

I presume that it has not, given the cost vs. capability measures of so doing.
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  #38  
Old 09 Apr 17, 08:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenose View Post
Wow, what an unnecessarily patronizing response. I happen, as someone who works with Boeing on their fighter aircraft programmes, to be slightly aware of that, ta. It appears - and as I said is probably an illusion - that the geometry of the intake (rather than then internal working which is where you will find the intake ramp, BTW, so I was not talking about the internal air flow management and if I had I would have been specific) had altered.

I presume that it has not, given the cost vs. capability measures of so doing.
If, as you say, you "work(s) with Boeing on their fighter aircraft programmes", I would have imagined that you would have been able to obtain such information about air intakes "straight from the horse's mouth" (intake's mouth ) .

Without being able to get up close and personal with the exterior of the photographed aircraft with a tape measure, I am unable to discern any difference to the appearance of the visible part of the intake, other than to note that it is in the 'down'(flying at supersonic speed) position.
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Last edited by At ease; 09 Apr 17 at 08:06..
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  #39  
Old 09 Apr 17, 10:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenose View Post
Wow, what an unnecessarily patronizing response.
Get used to it. That's almost his only contribution to the forum. People come here to learn but if you don't know as much about some subject as he does, that's what he does.
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  #40  
Old 10 Apr 17, 11:21
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Isn't part of stealth shaping the inlets in such a way that the line of sight for the compressor face (being a giant radar reflector) is covered by the geometry of the inlet, whilst the inlet itself will absorb the radar energy (or deflect it in other directions?).
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  #41  
Old 10 Apr 17, 18:48
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Quote:
Bluenose: It is probably an optical illusion, but have the changed the intake geometry?
Nope. Same intake geometry. See my comment below.

Quote:
Rutger: Isn't part of stealth shaping the inlets in such a way that the line of sight for the compressor face (being a giant radar reflector) is covered by the geometry of the inlet, whilst the inlet itself will absorb the radar energy (or deflect it in other directions?).
The two biggest issues from the forward quadrant are returns from the radar antenna and from the engine front. The return from the radar antenna can be solved by using and electronically scanned array (ESA) antenna. Since an ESA can scan without the antenna pointed directly at the target you can tilt the antenna so that it is not a major reflector.

As for the engine compressor return, you can use RAM in various areas on the inlet and there are a couple of technologies which can greatly reduce that return by hiding it.

Quote:
Achtung Baby : Wasn't there some constraints as to how much stealth Boeing could actually use on an export model?
With the export of the F-35, the logical argument would be that Boeing should be able to export any fighter whose signature is not lower than the F-35.
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  #42  
Old 20 Apr 17, 09:15
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Quote:
If, as you say, you "work(s) with Boeing on their fighter aircraft programmes", I would have imagined that you would have been able to obtain such information about air intakes "straight from the horse's mouth" (intake's mouth ) .
Hence my caveat that it was likely an optical illusion; from the side, the top surface of the intake appears very canted. However, as you and Pitchrate correctly said, actually there has been no change.

Quote:
With the export of the F-35, the logical argument would be that Boeing should be able to export any fighter whose signature is not lower than the F-35.
They'd better hurry up; those production lines may not have many more years in them.

BTW, did you see that Boeing is marketing the QF-16 concept as a UCAV / loyal wingman?
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  #43  
Old 27 Sep 17, 19:56
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We should also look at restarting work on the X-44 Manta.
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