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Real Time Strategy Games Discussion of all strategy games that use a Real-Time system, from the typical RTS games to the hardcore wargames.

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  #61  
Old 15 Sep 17, 18:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Personally I don't know why 363 and 394 were bundled in, because surely nobody will want to play them and will prefer playing 3.11.1 which is the latest version.
I respectfully disagree and prefer to play H3 over ANW or HUE versions because it has the most aggressive AI of the three. I only play ANW in MP because it is the only one with that capability. I only play HUE if there is absolutely no way to avoid it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
The big question potential buyers will be asking is "Why should I pay 50 GB pounds (67 US dollars) for a bundle of four games that are over 20 years old when I might as well pay a bit more and buy CMANO/Inferno/Chains which are less than a couple of years old?"
Some of the more significant reasons why ancient games like H3 are superior to MNO are:
  • Multi-player capability does not exist in MNO
  • The MNO database is frozen and totally unrealistic. This means that Harpoon users can create anything they can dream, while MNO users are restricted by the lack of imagination from the developers
  • Multi-map capability in H3 allows users to follow several different relevant areas from around the world simultaneously while MNO victims are forced to spend most of their time trying to figure out and follow what is happening.
  • Scenarios that take about an hour to play in Harpoon usually require four times as much effort to run in MNO

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Good question, the answer would seem to be that the old bundle of 4 classics and H3 have been almost completely debugged over the years, whereas the younger CMANO trio have not yet been fully deloused, so take your pick!
I do not believe that a correct or accurate presumption. The Harpoon games are also riddled with bugs, with each subsequent version seemingly adding more than they fix. The difference, IMHO, is that the H3 version bugs can (sometimes) be avoided or worked-around, but most of the ANW and HUE bugs cannot. For a full list of known H3, ANW, and HUE issues, check out:

* Known Harpoon 3 Issues
* Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues
Known ANW Issues video

With Harpoon, we can speak honestly and realistically about known problems. All those behaviours are fully documented and independently verified. Unfortunately, with MNO, this is not possible without some fanboi or developer making excuses.

Bug report: "Ships cannot defend themselves"
Matrix Publisher: "That bug was fixed years ago."
MNO Developer: "That might be a bug."
Fanboi Toady: "That isn't a (game-killing) bug."


http://steamcommunity.com/id/SlapBon...mended/397180/
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  #62  
Old 15 Sep 17, 20:37
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Ownership of copyrights are public, as it is an international law.
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  #63  
Old 15 Sep 17, 23:21
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I think that you are correct. Larry Bond appears to have some ownership of copyright for the book.

"Copyright (c) 1986 by Jack Ryan Enterprises Ltd. and Larry Bond"
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  #64  
Old 16 Sep 17, 13:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herman Hum View Post
...I prefer to play H3 over ANW or HUE versions because it has the most aggressive AI of the three. I only play ANW in MP because it is the only one with that capability. I only play HUE if there is absolutely no way to avoid it.
Thanks Herman, there have been different names for the same 4 Harpoon games over the years which has often confused newcomers including me.
At the moment the four games are on sale bundled together in the package below, so let's see if I've got this right-
The one on the left is the old 1980's "Harpoon Classic", and is called HUE, but you rarely play it.
The three on the right are the newer smoother "Harpoon 3" from the 1990's, and you prefer 3.9.4 because you say it's got the most aggressive AI of the three. Thanks, that's useful to know.
(incidentally what about the 3.6.3 version, do you ever play that?)
The Harpoon 3 ANW version on the far right is the only one with multiplayer capability, thanks that's useful to know too. I've never played it in multiplayer, is it easy to find a server and opponents?

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  #65  
Old 16 Sep 17, 14:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
At the moment the four games are on sale bundled together in the package below, so let's see if I've got this right-
The one on the left is the old 1980's "Harpoon Classic", and is called HUE, but you rarely play it.
The three on the right are the newer smoother "Harpoon 3" from the 1990's, and you prefer 3.9.4 because you say it's got the most aggressive AI of the three. Thanks, that's useful to know.
(incidentally what about the 3.6.3 version, do you ever play that?)
The Harpoon 3 ANW version on the far right is the only one with multiplayer capability, thanks that's useful to know too. I've never played it in multiplayer, is it easy to find a server and opponents?
Others may use different nomenclature, but this is mine:

HCE - Harpoon Classic Commander's Edition (1989) [a.k.a. HCCE]

H3 - Harpoon3 v3.6.3 [2001] (solitaire-only, most aggressive AI)
ANW - Harpooon3 v3.9.4 [2006] (Only MP-capable version)
HUE - Harpoon3 v3.11.1 [2010] (Final version shown by Harpoon Ultimate ANW icon)

MP servers are not available for ANW. Every time there is a battle, one of the opponents must set up a server. Locating opponents is difficult and should be arrange beforehand.
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  #66  
Old 16 Sep 17, 17:30
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Thanks Herman, I think I understand the nomenclature, but I want to get it crystal clear for me and newcomers to the "Larry Bond's Harpoon Ultimate Edition" bundle because these are the four icons they'll see on their desktop which I'll call 1234-



Let's see if I've got this correct-
1 is the old 1980's Harpoon but you rarely play it nowadays.
234 are the later smoother Harpoon which you play.

Are you saying 2's AI is more aggressive than 3 and 4?
Is 3 the only multiplayer version?

Last edited by Poor Old Spike; 16 Sep 17 at 17:58..
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  #67  
Old 16 Sep 17, 17:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herman Hum View Post
..With Harpoon, we can speak honestly and realistically about known problems.
Unfortunately, with MNO, this is not possible without some fanboi or developer making excuses...
Haha yes, when I recently tried to help the devs pinpoint and deal with MNO bugs and glitches in their forum, the kids and fanbois descended on me in a feeding frenzy screaming "he's a troll, don't listen to him!"
Regarding bugs in any wargame, it all depends what we personally can live with, for example I'm primarily a ship vs ship warfare nut, so if there are any bugs in the submarine or aircraft programming of a game I'm not too concerned.
It's the same with women, I once dated a 'Barbara' who always turned up with hideous close-cropped hair, old Victorian clothes and horrible flat shoes. No doubt some blokes could live with those 'bugs' but I couldn't, so I began trying to debug her by buying her a pair of sexy high heels but she refused to wear them, so I ditched her.
Pity because I was planning to debug her some more by buying her a Wonder Woman outfit..
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  #68  
Old 16 Sep 17, 18:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Thanks Herman, I think I understand the nomenclature, but I want to get it crystal clear for me and newcomers to the "Larry Bond's Harpoon Ultimate Edition" bundle because these are the four icons they'll see on their desktop which I'll call 1234-



Let's see if I've got this correct-
1 is the old 1980's Harpoon but you rarely play it nowadays.
234 are the later smoother Harpoon which you play.

Are you saying 2's AI is more aggressive than 3 and 4?
Is 3 the only multiplayer version?
Yes, you have interpreted my message accurately.
Icon #2 (Harpoon3 v3.6.3) has the most aggressive AI of the three.
Icon #3 is the only MP that actually works.
Icon #4 is supposed to allow MP, but it crashes every time you try to start it.
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  #69  
Old 16 Sep 17, 18:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Haha yes, when I recently tried to help the devs pinpoint and deal with MNO bugs and glitches in their forum, the kids and fanbois descended on me in a feeding frenzy screaming "he's a troll, don't listen to him!"
Regarding bugs in any wargame, it all depends what we personally can live with, for example I'm primarily a ship vs ship warfare nut, so if there are any bugs in the submarine or aircraft programming of a game I'm not too concerned.
I agree that different players can view the severity of a specific bug differently. That is why the the Harpoon bug lists simply show the behaviour and leave it to the developers to decide upon the severity classification.

Of course, you have MNO drones trying to tell everyone that a CTD in MNO is actually a good thing, because it allows the victim to rest and simply requires re-starting the game. As I think you are learning for yourself, in MNO, there is always an excuse and it is always someone else's fault.
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  #70  
Old 16 Sep 17, 19:26
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Quote:
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I agree that different players can view the severity of a specific bug differently..
Right, for example in CMANO (and the two expansions) ships on plotted courses won't auto-turn to open their CIWS firing arcs against missiles coming in on their blind spots, I discovered the bug 2 years ago and told the devs but it's still unfixed, so until they fix it the game stays on my shelf gathering dust because it's a game-killer for me, yet amazingly the game's fans are saying it's not a game-killer! Obviously they can live with the fact that their ships won't properly defend themselves, but I can't!
However a fix is rumoured to be on the way "soon", so we'll have to see.

PS-for wide-eyed popcorn-munching newcomers to the hallowed ground of this thread, 'CMANO' (or sometimes 'MNO') stands for 'Command:Modern Air Naval Operations' and is a huge expensive highly-detailed game but there are sometimes reduced price offers.
It's on the left below and was released a couple of years ago, but since then the two expansions in the picture have been released, (Northern Inferno and Chains of Command), however although they're advertised as 'standalone games' there's no scenario editor with them unless you've already got CMANO installed.
Hey you CMANO fans and devs out there, feel free to enter this sacred thread to comment on or correct anything; just take a shower, comb your hair, brush your teeth and you'll be welcome anytime..


Last edited by Poor Old Spike; 16 Sep 17 at 19:40..
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  #71  
Old 17 Sep 17, 09:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
I discovered the bug 2 years ago and told the devs but it's still unfixed, so until they fix it the game stays on my shelf gathering dust because it's a game-killer for me, yet amazingly the game's fans are saying it's not a game-killer! Obviously they can live with the fact that their ships won't properly defend themselves, but I can't!
You were only aware of it two years ago, but others have known about this bug since the game released, FOUR years ago. So, this bug has crippled the game since this turd dropped in 2013.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
...is a huge expensive highly-detailed game but there are sometimes reduced price offers.
This turkey has been on two-thirds discount pretty much every month for the last year and it just is not selling, except for the occasional sucker.



SteamCharts shows them at the same level of activity as one year prior, before the desperate deep discounts started. Virtually every sucker who might have bought this steaming pile of code has abandoned it just as quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
...(Northern Inferno and Chains of Command), however although they're advertised as 'standalone games' there's no scenario editor with them unless you've already got CMANO installed.
They are 'stand-alone' only in the same way a one-legged man is 'stand-alone'. Is there anything in these games that isn't crippled?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Hey you CMANO fans and devs out there, feel free to enter this sacred thread to comment on or correct anything; just take a shower, comb your hair, brush your teeth and you'll be welcome anytime..
As long as we continue to deal in facts about this wretched game, MNO shills, touts, and twats will only embarrass themselves with an appearance.
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  #72  
Old 21 Sep 17, 02:51
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Quote:
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You were only aware of it two years ago, but others have known about this bug since the game released, FOUR years ago...
Yes mate, experienced old salts like yourself and others can spot bugs a mile off, but the general CMANO wargaming population are mostly casual players, so bugs tend to go unnoticed by them.
Also, they usually dive into big scenarios which have dozens of units in them, so bugs tend to get masked.
Myself, I rarely play big scens in any game, preferring to get straight into the editor to set up tiny scens of my own containing just 2 or 3 units so that I can put their behaviour under the microscope taking into account their weaponry and sensors etc, and any bugs will soon become easy to spot..

TIP for newcomers- if any game you buy has got a scenario editor, GET IN THERE as soon as possible like I do to set up your own tiny games, because if you go into a big scenario too early you won't have a clue what's going on.
To play any game such as a naval game really well, you've got to know every vessel's capabilities intimately like the back of your hand and the more units you've got, the more difficult it is to remember them all.
In fact, I prefer smaller scens anyway..
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  #73  
Old 21 Sep 17, 09:22
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Some strange goings-on over in the Steam CMANO forum, I posted about the infamous "ships wont auto-turn to open their CIWS arcs" bug and said-
"I told the devs about it 2 years ago, but they still haven't released a fix"

To which Dimitris (Sunburn) replied there today-
"This is incorrect...untrue" and he got the Steam mods to lock the thread!

So I've just fired up my CMANO to check it out by running tests, but was disappointed to find the friggin ships still won't turn!
I'm version 1.12.6 which I believe is the latest update, so it seems the fix has still not been released despite what Dimitris/Sunburn claims, or have I missed it or what?
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  #74  
Old 21 Sep 17, 11:24
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Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Yes mate, experienced old salts like yourself and others can spot bugs a mile off, but the general CMANO wargaming population are mostly casual players, so bugs tend to go unnoticed by them.
Also, they usually dive into big scenarios which have dozens of units in them, so bugs tend to get masked.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see all the problems in that ridiculous MNO game. The developers try to hide all the hideous behaviour behind the unworkable user interface, but it is clearly evident to anyone who tries the game that MNO is nothing more than a couple of 'battling spreadsheets'.

Some folks are easily fooled by the size of the database. Only when they start reading it do they realize that the same fundamental errors have been photo-copied a thousand times and corrupt every entry. The thing is worthless. Try photo-copying an image that many times and see what you get in the end.
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  #75  
Old 21 Sep 17, 11:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Some strange goings-on over in the Steam CMANO forum, I posted about the infamous "ships wont auto-turn to open their CIWS arcs" bug and said-
"I told the devs about it 2 years ago, but they still haven't released a fix"

To which Dimitris (Sunburn) replied there today-
"This is incorrect...untrue" and he got the Steam mods to lock the thread!
Sigh, why do you even bother with that place, when you already know their SOP? Of course they will give the perfunctory denial. There was no fix, whatsoever. It's just another MNO lie. And, to make sure you do not challenge them, the thread is locked. That is exactly why one should NEVER post messages on an MNO-controlled site. If you want open and honest discussion, always do it on ACG, UseNet, or somewhere you cannot be deleted.

The part I find particularly laughable is where the developer, publisher, and fanboi cannot even keep their lies straight and directly contradict one another.

The false claim by MNO is just another in a long list of outright lies, such as their claim to fix the Memory Leaks and the particularly ludicrous claim that the game runs faster. Every time I start that piece of crap game, it runs slower and more sluggishly than the previous attempt, even though I use faster and faster computers.
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