HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > World War II

Notices and Announcements

World War II Discuss WW2. .

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 15 Sep 17, 10:02
MarkV's Avatar
MarkV MarkV is offline
General of the Forums
UK
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Tenbury Wells
Posts: 12,134
MarkV is simply cracking [600]
MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebfrench76 View Post
The Arsenal VG 33 was a serious contender to the Spit ,imo...

http://img13.deviantart.net/ddba/i/2...y_quentinr.jpg
Apart from never getting into service. Much too late to be a contender
__________________
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 15 Sep 17, 10:16
RichardS's Avatar
RichardS RichardS is offline
ACG Forums - Air Marshall
South_Vietnam
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Where wolf? THERE WOLF!
Posts: 16,981
RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
I do agree the Arsenal VG 33 is very handsome. I do think too that except for the FW-190D/TA-152 that the FW-190 was not so good looking. If you like the FW-190 why not the P-47? But to get back on-topic I think the MS-406 had a rugged handsomeness too.
__________________
Eagles may fly; but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!

"I'm not expendable; I'm not stupid and I'm not going." - Kerr Avon, Blake's 7

Calling Nazis ratzis is an insult to rats around the world.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 15 Sep 17, 10:48
MarkV's Avatar
MarkV MarkV is offline
General of the Forums
UK
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Tenbury Wells
Posts: 12,134
MarkV is simply cracking [600]
MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
I do agree the Arsenal VG 33 is very handsome. I do think too that except for the FW-190D/TA-152 that the FW-190 was not so good looking. If you like the FW-190 why not the P-47? But to get back on-topic I think the MS-406 had a rugged handsomeness too.
Looked better with a Soviet Engine - performed better too

The Swiss version also looked and performed better

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M...3801_J-143.jpg
__________________
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 15 Sep 17, 16:33
Capt AFB's Avatar
Capt AFB Capt AFB is offline
Lieutenant General
Canada
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Eastern Canada
Posts: 3,739
Capt AFB is on a distinguished road [300] Capt AFB is on a distinguished road [300] Capt AFB is on a distinguished road [300] Capt AFB is on a distinguished road [300] Capt AFB is on a distinguished road [300] Capt AFB is on a distinguished road [300] Capt AFB is on a distinguished road [300] Capt AFB is on a distinguished road [300] Capt AFB is on a distinguished road [300] Capt AFB is on a distinguished road [300] Capt AFB is on a distinguished road [300] Capt AFB is on a distinguished road [300] Capt AFB is on a distinguished road [300] Capt AFB is on a distinguished road [300]
Some MS 406 were upgraded to MS 410, with better gunsights, added MGs in the wings (2/per wing vs a single MG) and modifications to carry fuel tanks.

As a relatively robust plane, able to take on damage and still fly, I always wondered how the MS 410 would fare as a ground attack plane against the German advance.

OK, I understand that French Air Force doctrine may not cover this at the time and their army/air force cooperation was nothing like the Wehrmacht.

With De 520 and other MS 406 (and Hurricanes?) providing fighter cover, how well would a German column fare against air attacks from a swarm of MS 410 and MS 406 - could the centrally propeller shaft mounted 20mm hurt a Pz Mk II, Mk III, Mk IV or 38t hitting them from the top and back?

Would German AA assets be needed to be kept in position to defend German columns and therefore not available for antitank duties?

Would German fighter dealing with French ground attacks be available in enough numbers to effectively escort bombers and Stukas?

I don't think that this alternate history option would have change the course of the Battle of France much, but may have delayed the German advance - Would a Dunkirk still would have happened?

Thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 15 Sep 17, 18:02
MarkV's Avatar
MarkV MarkV is offline
General of the Forums
UK
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Tenbury Wells
Posts: 12,134
MarkV is simply cracking [600]
MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt AFB View Post
Some MS 406 were upgraded to MS 410, with better gunsights, added MGs in the wings (2/per wing vs a single MG) and modifications to carry fuel tanks.
You are confusing two things
  1. The development of external under wing tanks
  2. The development of a strengthened wing with four Mg with flat magazines
It was only aircraft converted with the the 2nd of these that were re designated MS 410. These were produced after the fall of France and some were supplied to the Croatian puppet air force and used for ant partisan operations. The under wing tanks were used to ferry ordinary MS 406s to North Africa.
__________________
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 15 Sep 17, 18:22
sebfrench76's Avatar
sebfrench76 sebfrench76 is online now
General of the Forums
France
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Rouen,Normandy
Posts: 7,399
sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Actually they are not dissimilar in general looks - don't get so precious
May be you missed the emoticons.Will try to oversize them next time.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:55.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.