HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Vietnam War > Vietnam War Videos

Notices and Announcements

Vietnam War Videos Videos and documentaries about the Wars in Vietnam 1945-1975

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04 Jun 13, 01:56
Miss Saigon's Avatar
Miss Saigon Miss Saigon is offline
General of the Forums - Donut Dolly
South_Vietnam
Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: FSB Austin
Posts: 13,473
Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Triumph Forsaken: The Vietnam War, 1954-1965

A fantastic video from the Army War College of Mark Moyar talking about "Triumph Forsaken".


__________________

Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 05 Jun 13, 15:48
lirelou's Avatar
lirelou lirelou is offline
General
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Shaun M. Darragh
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Lutz
Posts: 4,918
lirelou gives and gets respect [800]
lirelou gives and gets respect [800] lirelou gives and gets respect [800] lirelou gives and gets respect [800] lirelou gives and gets respect [800] lirelou gives and gets respect [800] lirelou gives and gets respect [800] lirelou gives and gets respect [800] lirelou gives and gets respect [800] lirelou gives and gets respect [800] lirelou gives and gets respect [800] lirelou gives and gets respect [800] lirelou gives and gets respect [800] lirelou gives and gets respect [800] lirelou gives and gets respect [800] lirelou gives and gets respect [800]
Well, Miss S, it's my day for being picky. Probably the cold I brought back from Utah. Anyway, regarding Moyar, overall a good speech, but I found some points erroneous or confusing:

Moyar states that the Sino-Soviet split widened as a result of the war:

Simplistic: The basis of the Sino-Soviet split lies in their border dispute over the Amur River territories, which were ceded to Imperial Russia under duress in 1858, 1860, and 1864, and which Lenin promised to return to China. The Sino-Soviet split can be traced to the 1950s, but it was definitely a fact by 1969 when Chinese and Soviet forces fought a series of border clashes in the region. "Widened" is a careful choice of words, but it could hardly have been widened by much given they were willing to shoot it out in 1969.

Moyar states that the Cultural Revolution started 'shortly after U.S. withdrawal'.

Erroneous: It started on 16 May 1966 and was winding down by the time U.S. troops had withdrawn from Vietnam. It officially ended on 6 October 1976 with arrest of the Gang of Four.

Moyar states that the civil war in Cambodia led to the Vietnamese invasion.

Confusing. The Cambodian Civil War started with the Lon Nol coup that overthrew Sihanouk in March 1970, and ended when the Khmers Rouges took power in April 1975. Are we talking about that Civil War and the subsequent Vietnamese (RVN) invasion of the sactuaries? I suspect not, given April 1975. Particularly since Khmer Serai and Khmer Krom forces armed and trained by the U.S. helped bring about that coup and subsequently fought the Khmers Rouges.

However, after the 1975 Khmers Rouges victory, relations with Vietnam degenerated over Cambodian claims to the Mekong Delta and cross border incursions by Khmers Rouges troops into Vietnam, where they massacred any locals they found, the most notorious of which were the Ba Chuc massacres of April 1978. By this time purges within the Khmers Rouges ranks had put several Cambodian leaders on the Vietnamese side, and with the arrival of the dry season in December 1978 the former NVA launched an invasion, overthrowing the Khmers Rouges and installing Hun Sen in power in January 1979, leading to another civil war by holdout factions of the Khmer Rouges before Vietnam withdrew from Cambodia ten years later. I suspect that this is the Cambodian Civil War Moyar is referring to, as it came about after our withdrawal, but its roots go back to our own history there.

Otherwise, a pretty good speech.
__________________
dit: Lirelou

Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá ǵ!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05 Jun 13, 16:19
Miss Saigon's Avatar
Miss Saigon Miss Saigon is offline
General of the Forums - Donut Dolly
South_Vietnam
Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: FSB Austin
Posts: 13,473
Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lirelou View Post
Well, Miss S, it's my day for being picky. Probably the cold I brought back from Utah. Anyway, regarding Moyar, overall a good speech, but I found some points erroneous or confusing:
He didn't seem to be a comfortable public speaker and I attribute some of his errors, if not all of them, to that rather than him not knowing the facts. I noticed it what he said about the cultural revolution and immediately thought that it must be a speaking gaff, not a lack of knowledge.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 13 Mar 17, 23:37
Redzen's Avatar
Redzen Redzen is offline
Sergeant Major
Armchair_General
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Elsewhere.
Posts: 320
Redzen has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by lirelou View Post
Well, Miss S, it's my day for being picky. Probably the cold I brought back from Utah. Anyway, regarding Moyar, overall a good speech, but I found some points erroneous or confusing:

Moyar states that the Sino-Soviet split widened as a result of the war:

Simplistic: The basis of the Sino-Soviet split lies in their border dispute over the Amur River territories, which were ceded to Imperial Russia under duress in 1858, 1860, and 1864, and which Lenin promised to return to China. The Sino-Soviet split can be traced to the 1950s, but it was definitely a fact by 1969 when Chinese and Soviet forces fought a series of border clashes in the region. "Widened" is a careful choice of words, but it could hardly have been widened by much given they were willing to shoot it out in 1969.

Moyar states that the Cultural Revolution started 'shortly after U.S. withdrawal'.

Erroneous: It started on 16 May 1966 and was winding down by the time U.S. troops had withdrawn from Vietnam. It officially ended on 6 October 1976 with arrest of the Gang of Four.

Moyar states that the civil war in Cambodia led to the Vietnamese invasion.

Confusing. The Cambodian Civil War started with the Lon Nol coup that overthrew Sihanouk in March 1970, and ended when the Khmers Rouges took power in April 1975. Are we talking about that Civil War and the subsequent Vietnamese (RVN) invasion of the sactuaries? I suspect not, given April 1975. Particularly since Khmer Serai and Khmer Krom forces armed and trained by the U.S. helped bring about that coup and subsequently fought the Khmers Rouges.

However, after the 1975 Khmers Rouges victory, relations with Vietnam degenerated over Cambodian claims to the Mekong Delta and cross border incursions by Khmers Rouges troops into Vietnam, where they massacred any locals they found, the most notorious of which were the Ba Chuc massacres of April 1978. By this time purges within the Khmers Rouges ranks had put several Cambodian leaders on the Vietnamese side, and with the arrival of the dry season in December 1978 the former NVA launched an invasion, overthrowing the Khmers Rouges and installing Hun Sen in power in January 1979, leading to another civil war by holdout factions of the Khmer Rouges before Vietnam withdrew from Cambodia ten years later. I suspect that this is the Cambodian Civil War Moyar is referring to, as it came about after our withdrawal, but its roots go back to our own history there.

Otherwise, a pretty good speech.
Yes, those are good points. I can't understand how Moyar made such howlers. Everyone knows, for instance, that the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution began in the first half of 1966. And the Sino-Soviet split was due to ideological differences, particularly sharpened after Khrushchev's denunciation of Stalin in his "secret" speech to the 20th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union on Feb. 25, 1956, as well as national border disputes.

I am presently reading Moyar's Victory Forsaken, which I bought in charity op shop (U.S.: thrift store) for a couple of dollars. It is an interesting read so far.
__________________
C'est plus tard que vous ne le pensez.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06 Sep 17, 04:37
Redzen's Avatar
Redzen Redzen is offline
Sergeant Major
Armchair_General
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Elsewhere.
Posts: 320
Redzen has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redzen View Post
Yes, those are good points. I can't understand how Moyar made such howlers. Everyone knows, for instance, that the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution began in the first half of 1966. And the Sino-Soviet split was due to ideological differences, particularly sharpened after Khrushchev's denunciation of Stalin in his "secret" speech to the 20th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union on Feb. 25, 1956, as well as national border disputes.

I am presently reading Moyar's Victory Forsaken, which I bought in charity op shop (U.S.: thrift store) for a couple of dollars. It is an interesting read so far.
The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution began May 16th, 1966.
__________________
C'est plus tard que vous ne le pensez.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:00.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.