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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Weapons of War

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Weapons of War The machinery of warfare. .

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  #16  
Old 14 Aug 17, 15:03
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Originally Posted by MonsterZero View Post
If the ammunition case is bigger with a heavier powder charge then you can continue using the same sabot projectile but at faster velocities, no?
That is the theory, and there are all these snippy little groups that are trying to make depleted uranium illegal.
Moving to 140mm or so is also something the Russians have been headed for, but I don't think that they are going to pay attention to any of that.

This could be a way to make Tungsten shot more workable, more competitive.
Just a theory ATM, but if you wanted to make that kind of round as effective as D.U. rounds, going bigger would help.

It could also make for more effective HESH rounds, or H.E. rounds nearly a match for heavy artillery.

-- And one other thing; firing ATGMs from tank guns is a thing that has been around for a while. Maybe the next generation needs a bigger bore?
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  #17  
Old 14 Aug 17, 18:22
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I wonder how much a 140mm shell would cut down on stowage capacity. I know that's always been a concern with going bigger.
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  #18  
Old 15 Aug 17, 02:01
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Well... Assuming identical length of the shells the mere change of diameter would require at least 36% more space (would cut down to 73% of the current - 1.2^2/1.4^2). If you had also longer shells (in addition to larger diameter) than that number would change accordingly. For example if the ratio (diameter to length) of the shells remained unchanged then the number of shells would be around 63% percent of the current (i.e. 1.2^3/1.4^3)
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  #19  
Old 15 Aug 17, 05:01
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The shell was 1.5 meter long and was supposed to be in 2 parts for a easier handling.
Totally abandoned in 1998 .
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  #20  
Old 16 Aug 17, 10:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
That is the theory, and there are all these snippy little groups that are trying to make depleted uranium illegal.
After what happened to the workforce at National Lead, I wouldn't be at all saddened to see the manufacture of DU rounds discontinued. Half of them died of cancer, and the other half went mad and killed their families.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner
. . . . What happens is at some point you can't go longer on the barrel, or increase the diameter of the round. There's also a metallurgical limit to this in terms of strength of the gun itself and the wear it suffers every time it's fired... And yes, even smoothbores wear out.
Uncle was a supervisor at Watervliet, where the 120mm tubes were/are manufactured, and going on memory, the tubes are rated for 200 rds.
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  #21  
Old 16 Aug 17, 12:22
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So if you're going up to 140mm, which would make it a brand new round and brand new everything in the manufacturing realm, including new handling equipment, new barrels, and so forth.....

Why not just go up to 155mm. The HE rounds are already in production. Barrels would be easy to manufacture. Handling and moving equipment is already in service. You have to use an autoloader anyway, go up the extra 15mm and make the MBT dual-purpose as artillery as well.
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  #22  
Old 16 Aug 17, 12:25
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^ The breech, the recoil system, the magazine, and likely the entire interior of the turret will have to be redesigned. None of this can happen on the cheap.
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  #23  
Old 16 Aug 17, 14:20
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Look at the size of that muzzle brake. When that thing fires, it will kick up a cloud of dust so big they will be blind for minutes...
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  #24  
Old 16 Aug 17, 14:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterZero View Post
Look at the size of that muzzle brake. When that thing fires, it will kick up a cloud of dust so big they will be blind for minutes...
That's why they have thermal sights.
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  #25  
Old 16 Aug 17, 16:49
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A thought for a 140mm or 155mm gunned tank would be thus:

The gun and system is so big that it's getting cramped in the turret.

So design the hull to accomodate all 3 crew members, you can even put spall liner and an additional piece of armor around the crew cell to increase survivability if the tank is knocked out.

Put a periscope mast on the turret to not only allow for looking over cover, but also allow for locating targets immediately after firing in dusty conditions where the main sights might be obscured by gun gases and/or dirt.
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  #26  
Old 16 Aug 17, 17:58
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There's a good chance we will see a Rheinmetall L/51 130 mm.

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