HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Weapons of War

Notices and Announcements

Weapons of War The machinery of warfare. .

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24 Jul 17, 01:24
MonsterZero's Avatar
MonsterZero MonsterZero is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 11,140
MonsterZero has achieved enlightenment [1200+] MonsterZero has achieved enlightenment [1200+] MonsterZero has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
MonsterZero has achieved enlightenment [1200+] MonsterZero has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
How to shoot the English Lonbow

__________________

"Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
--Frederick II, King of Prussia
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 25 Jul 17, 14:58
Escape2Victory's Avatar
Escape2Victory Escape2Victory is offline
Lieutenant General
UK
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 3,762
Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200]
I read that Wellington hoped to take a troop of longbow men on his peninsula campaign in the napoleonic war, thinking they would prove more accurate than than the riflemen. Not enough longbow men could be found though, the skill had withered as it needs extensive training to build up the muscles.
__________________
Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 29 Jul 17, 14:41
MarkV's Avatar
MarkV MarkV is online now
General of the Forums
UK
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Tenbury Wells
Posts: 12,571
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escape2Victory View Post
I read that Wellington hoped to take a troop of longbow men on his peninsula campaign in the napoleonic war, thinking they would prove more accurate than than the riflemen. Not enough longbow men could be found though, the skill had withered as it needs extensive training to build up the muscles.
No he didn't.

There was an archery enthusiast in the British army who suggested that the longbow could shoot faster and more accurately than the smooth bore musket of the day and recommended that the Land Service Musket be replaced with the long bow (its origins English or Welsh are still in dispute). This was so much tosh and rightly dismissed by Horse Guards (where the war office was located). The longbow took a long time (years) to master (and great skill to make) whereas an early standardisation and production system meant that musket could be produced and the necessary drill could be taught to a new recruit in weeks. No attempt was made to find long bowmen and Arthur Wellesley was not involved in any case. He quite approved of the rifle (unlike Napoleon who banned it from the French army) but in any case he was appointed to the Peninsular force initially as no.4 in the command and merely took himself there.
__________________
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 29 Jul 17, 18:07
Escape2Victory's Avatar
Escape2Victory Escape2Victory is offline
Lieutenant General
UK
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 3,762
Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
No he didn't.

There was an archery enthusiast in the British army who suggested that the longbow could shoot faster and more accurately than the smooth bore musket of the day and recommended that the Land Service Musket be replaced with the long bow (its origins English or Welsh are still in dispute). This was so much tosh and rightly dismissed by Horse Guards (where the war office was located). The longbow took a long time (years) to master (and great skill to make) whereas an early standardisation and production system meant that musket could be produced and the necessary drill could be taught to a new recruit in weeks. No attempt was made to find long bowmen and Arthur Wellesley was not involved in any case. He quite approved of the rifle (unlike Napoleon who banned it from the French army) but in any case he was appointed to the Peninsular force initially as no.4 in the command and merely took himself there.
I can't recall where I read it and it was a long time ago so can't link, but you seem to have made a lot of fuss about how wrong I was and then stated essentially the same thing.
__________________
Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 29 Jul 17, 21:24
Chukka's Avatar
Chukka Chukka is online now
Major General
Australia
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In the Field
Posts: 2,638
Chukka has a spectacular aura about [400]
Chukka has a spectacular aura about [400]
I had heard the story about Benjamin Franklin's amateur enthusiasm for the Longbow. I found this, this morning, (dating from 1965 and referring to from an 1839 book of Franklin's letters) and I am sure that it is also mention in my trusty 1963 Britannica's. If the story is a fake, it is at least an old (1839) fake.

Could be worth investigating who Charles Lee was.....

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3101785...n_tab_contents



__________________
One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions - Admiral Grace Hopper

"The eunuch should not take pride in his chastity."
Wu Cheng'en Monkey

Last edited by Chukka; 30 Jul 17 at 00:27..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 30 Jul 17, 06:41
MarkV's Avatar
MarkV MarkV is online now
General of the Forums
UK
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Tenbury Wells
Posts: 12,571
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
The story about Wellington and the longbow appears to stem from a long letter published in the Spectator on 20 th October 1900 discussing the proposal made by Sir John Smythe in the 17th century to replace the musket with the longbow. The letter tries to make the point that if this had been done and if Wellington's army in the peninsular war had had this weapon ....

Franklin's proposal appears to be based on a 17th century pamphlet by a William Neade titled "The Double Armed Man" who advocated a force armed with pikes and longbows - exactly what Franklin was proposing

The proposal made in the 18th century is mentioned in The Superiority of Fire by Major Pridham written in 1944/5. No mention is made of Wellington and I believe now that Pridham is getting his centuries muddled and is referring to Smythes proposal also made at about the same time by a Captain Edward Yorke.

The Wellington story floats around the Internet in various guises sometimes referring to the Peninsular and sometimes to Waterloo - there is usually a reference to "I read somewhere but can't remember where" which is the e version of "a man in the pub said". No source is ever provided. Just another urban myth
__________________
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

Last edited by MarkV; 30 Jul 17 at 07:03..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03 Aug 17, 12:53
Escape2Victory's Avatar
Escape2Victory Escape2Victory is offline
Lieutenant General
UK
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 3,762
Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
The story about Wellington and the longbow appears to stem from a long letter published in the Spectator on 20 th October 1900 discussing the proposal made by Sir John Smythe in the 17th century to replace the musket with the longbow. The letter tries to make the point that if this had been done and if Wellington's army in the peninsular war had had this weapon ....

Franklin's proposal appears to be based on a 17th century pamphlet by a William Neade titled "The Double Armed Man" who advocated a force armed with pikes and longbows - exactly what Franklin was proposing

The proposal made in the 18th century is mentioned in The Superiority of Fire by Major Pridham written in 1944/5. No mention is made of Wellington and I believe now that Pridham is getting his centuries muddled and is referring to Smythes proposal also made at about the same time by a Captain Edward Yorke.

The Wellington story floats around the Internet in various guises sometimes referring to the Peninsular and sometimes to Waterloo - there is usually a reference to "I read somewhere but can't remember where" which is the e version of "a man in the pub said". No source is ever provided. Just another urban myth
I'm guessing you weren't present at any of these occasions and so shall never really know if Wellington was involved or not. In any case, this aspect amounts to tittle-tattle. The salient point for this thread is that the longbow was considered for military use in the peninsular campaign but the notion rejected because insufficient archers were available and the training period too long to assemble a force in time. This is because the longbow requires years of physical training to acquire the right muscle strength.
__________________
Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03 Aug 17, 17:22
jf42's Avatar
jf42 jf42 is offline
Second Lieutenant
UK
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London
Posts: 433
jf42 is on the path to success [1-99] jf42 is on the path to success [1-99] jf42 is on the path to success [1-99]
I think there can be a substantial distance between ' a proposal' and 'was considered...'
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:14.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.