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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion > American Revolution

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American Revolution 1763-1789 The birth of a new nation - to commence at the Proclaimation of 1763 to the end of the Articles of Confederation.

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  #1  
Old 02 May 17, 10:03
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Britain invaded!

The Washington Post has this article on the U.S. War of Independence titled The U.S. has invaded Britain just once. It didnít go well. It's on John Paul Jones and his so-called invasion. I have not read much on Jones so I don't much about this particular action. Does anyone have an opinion on the article.

Quote:
After midnight, the 30 men began paddling the two miles to shore. Then the wind died, and just before sunup, Capt. John Paul Jones set foot once more on Whitehaven, the first and only time American forces ever attacked the British Isles.
I did find that an assistant professor of history at the U.S. Naval Academy tweeted: "What is it with sports writers who suddenly become naval historians? So many minor issues with this piece that it adds up quickly."
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Last edited by taco; 02 May 17 at 10:14..
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  #2  
Old 04 May 17, 21:15
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Jones seemed to always look at the war differently than others aboard the ships he served. As I recall, prize money was never a big motivator for him and he was often making choices that were unpopular with his crews.

The big accomplishment by Jones and others, like Gustavus Conyngham, was to strike fear into the hearts of the British public. They were afraid more attacks were coming, either on land or against their ships, and that further attacks would succeed in terrible ways. Insurance rates went up significantly as well.
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Old 05 May 17, 05:42
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Not an invasion - a raid. Different thing altogether. An invasion involves a sustained attempt to land and maintain a force on the enemy's territory usually with the intention of dispossessing the enemy of that territory. A raid is a quick tactical strike followed by a withdrawal so for example the Moorish attacks on the West Country in the 16th and 17th century were slaving raids and not invasions. The US attack on Canada in 1812 was an invasion whilst the British/Canadian descent on Washington in 1814 was a raid. In the French Revolutionary War the RN carried out a number of raids on France at some cost and with very little effect. This was referred to as "breaking windows with guineas"
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Old 05 May 17, 06:50
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That hair can be split in many ways.

in∑va∑sion
inˈvāZHən/Submit
noun
an instance of invading a country or region with an armed force.
"the Allied invasion of Normandy"
synonyms: occupation, capture, seizure, annexation, annexing, takeover; More
an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity.
"stadium guards are preparing for another invasion of fans"
synonyms: influx, inundation, flood, rush, torrent, deluge, avalanche, juggernaut
"an invasion of tourists"
an unwelcome intrusion into another's domain.
"random drug testing of employees is an unwarranted invasion of privacy"
synonyms: violation, infringement, interruption, intrusion, encroachment, disturbance, disruption, breach
"an invasion of my privacy"
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Old 05 May 17, 07:23
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the raid was a failure
the book I've read on Jones, says just about what's said in the article

Last edited by Moulin; 05 May 17 at 07:45..
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Old 05 May 17, 07:45
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Originally Posted by Moulin View Post
the raid was a failure
the book I've read says just about what's said in the article
Does the book evaluate the psychological effects? Any attitude changes from Whitehall? Public reaction? Just wondering, I haven't spent any time on this one.
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Old 05 May 17, 08:07
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Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
Does the book evaluate the psychological effects? Any attitude changes from Whitehall? Public reaction? Just wondering, I haven't spent any time on this one.
I get most of my books from the library, and read this one last summer-fall
I don't recall much on public reaction, etc...that could've been in the book, I just don't recall
it had a lot of detail in it--many pages--that and another book I had-
-I clearly remember [ because I was in the USMC ] the book talking about the birth of the Marine Corps at Tun Tavern
I'll try to find it again
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Old 05 May 17, 08:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin View Post
I get most of my books from the library, and read this one last summer-fall
I don't recall much on public reaction, etc...that could've been in the book, I just don't recall
it had a lot of detail in it--many pages--that and another book I had-
-I clearly remember [ because I was in the USMC ] the book talking about the birth of the Marine Corps at Tun Tavern
I'll try to find it again
Thanks. I remember so political cartoons from the era that discussed the raid, from both sides. They may be on the net somewhere.
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Old 16 May 17, 20:30
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Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
Does the book evaluate the psychological effects? Any attitude changes from Whitehall? Public reaction? Just wondering, I haven't spent any time on this one.
from Give Me a Fast Ship Tim McGrath p 226...

'' While Jones was angry that the ..raid [ burning the merchantmen ] had fallen so far short of his expectations, he kept this to himself''
parentheses mine

after the raids/etc
''the entire population along the Firth of Solway was alarmed......fear was the prevalent emotion''

Jones had failed miserably in his brief career as a kidnapper. But he had done what he had set out to do: strike terror in British hearts''

at Brest, Jones ''expected a hero's welcome, but the crowd waiting for him ...was sparse''

''the British press showed the rewards of Jones's persistence....The diminutive Jones of real life was transformed by the British illustrators into a hulking giant, ....rivaling Blackbeard by their ferocious description''

so tactically a failure....but some success otherwise
the Admiralty dispatched the frigate Thetis to capture Jones, because of the raid

hahaha I just glanced at the title in the article when I first read it, and now see it's the same book I had read
from my 1st post --''the book I read said about the same thing''' --no wonder!--..but I did read another book on Jones around the same time
..I don't remember to many titles, since I get books often

Last edited by Moulin; 16 May 17 at 21:02..
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Old 17 May 17, 11:03
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Quote:
He sailed The Ranger north to Selkirk, home of the local Lord whom he planned to kidnap
HA! This would have been a substantial achievement for Commodore Jones, since the burgh of Selkirk being about 40-odd miles inland from the nearest coast - at Musselburgh on the Forth- there could hardly be a more landlocked spot in Scotland.


Tragically for Monsieur Bogage, Sports Writer and Naval Historian, Lord Selkirk did not reside at Selkirk (confusing, I know) but just outside the harbour town of Kirkcudbright, at his estate on St Mary's Isle (which, to make it worse is not even an island - I KNOW!)

To be fair, however, Kirkcudbright is north from Whitehaven, well, north west, across the Solway. I love it, though, how some random peer of the realm, dwelling 30 miles across the sea from Whitehaven becomes ' the local Lord,' never mind the fact that he dwells in another flippin' country.

That country being Scotland, the land of JPJ's birth, just a few miles down the coast from Kirkcudbright, I imagine he kent fine well who Lord Selkirk was. Is it possible that Monsieur Bogage is the one who is confused?

JPJ is now regarded with some pride in Galloway. The estate of Arbigland, where he was born, now claims him as his own, and a country dance is named after him.

Last edited by jf42; 17 May 17 at 11:08..
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