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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion

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American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion Military history of North America. .

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  #16  
Old 28 Apr 17, 13:53
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Clueless, ...

... absolutely clueless.

Quote:
I dont know the words to write to you to convey a message to you that will in return prevent you from talking down to me or insulting Mr Carapella... Its clear you know far more of Indian history then many people but are you saying all the tribal elders that spoke with Carapella, all the research and all the work Carapella did was crap?
You don't know alot of things, and your display of sanctimonious indignity is completely misplaced.

Let me clarify. You posted a link to an article i.e. "The Map Of Native American Tribes You've Never Seen Before", written by Hansi Lo Wang, on NPR.org, provided a snippet that included comments under the name "Herman":


Quote:
He adds that some Native American groups got stuck with names chosen arbitrarily by European settlers. They were often derogatory names other tribes used to describe their rivals. For example, "Comanche" is derived from a word in Ute meaning "anyone who wants to fight me all the time," according to the Encyclopaedia Britannica.

"It's like having a map of North America where the United States is labeled 'gringos' and Mexico is labeled 'wetbacks,' " Herman says. "Naming is an exercise in power. Whether you're naming places or naming peoples, you are therefore asserting a power of sort of establishing what is reality and what is not."

and asked "Any feedback on the above folks". I read the whole article, after your response here I can only assume that you didn't bother. My response to this article was:

"It's a whole lotta crap. If this Doug Herman really is the senior geographer at the Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian in Washington, D.C., they really need to get someone else because this is clueless. I'm hoping that Hansi Lo Wang either heard wrong, misquoted Herman or made this all up."


Note, "Herman", and "Hansi Lo Wang" - where do you see "Carapella" anywhere in my response?

Of Carapella's map itself I said four words, "This map is wrong.", and provided several SPECIFIC examples. That said, clearly this comment is inappropriate:


Quote:
Its clear you know far more of Indian history then many people but are you saying all the tribal elders that spoke with Carapella, all the research and all the work Carapella did was crap?
See above re: "crap". Now who EXACTLY did Carapella speak to, what ACTUAL research did he conduct, and what SOURCES did he use? Whatever they are, they obviously proved themselves to be inadequate.

One more thing, Carapella didn't bother to talk to ME, or US. You see, my mother's family is Algonquin, originally from the Outaouais region of Quebec. I have uncles, cousins etc. who have full federal Indian Status, I have my own personal reasons for not applying for same. So when I pointed out "and the tribe known as the "Algonquin" (Omamiwinini) that gave their name to a whole language group, and the last one is nowhere to be found on the map.", it was personal, Carapella obviously didn't talk to anyone in my family about it, we're not even on the map!

My response to Herman's comments i.e.
Quote:
It's like having a map of North America where the United States is labeled 'gringos' and Mexico is labeled 'wetbacks,'
was:

FN people today are called what they want to be called, that's their reality. Some prefer names from languages that few of their members can speak or understand i.e. Innu, Lakota etc. others remain post-contact traditional i.e. Seminole, Windego etc.

Why? My family are "Algonquin", that's the FN/tribal name they use, they don't use "Omamiwinini", does that really make them akin to "Wetbacks" and "Gringos" as Herman would have you believe? I will say it again, he's full of "crap"!!!

As for the rest, Mr. Carapella is welcome to use the endorsements of "Mr. Jeffrey M. Williams" and "Yvonne M. Dennis" to shill his maps, but he's not going to get mine.


I'll finish off with this. Many years ago I was sent to attend a week long "Aboriginal Awareness" course, designed for white collar, largely urban government employees, presented by FN's. Like me, there were several coppers in attendance with plenty of experience working Reserves; comparing notes we soon realised that we had become immersed in the homogenised, warm and fuzzy, kumbaya version of FN history, with FN's as victims; very little of what was was presented actually existed in the real world, none of us had seen it.

At the end of it all, we were asked for feedback, one of our number, a Canine Handler from an elite unit, laid right into it, criticising the course top to bottom. The course managers were livid, went to the Bureau Commander, called the K9 handler racist, wanted him disciplined, etc. It was investigated, the official response was:

"you asked for feedback, accept it with grace, and learn from it."

And that's my gift to you ...
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  #17  
Old 28 Apr 17, 18:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
... absolutely clueless.



You don't know alot of things, and your display of sanctimonious indignity is completely misplaced.

Let me clarify. You posted a link to an article i.e. "The Map Of Native American Tribes You've Never Seen Before", written by Hansi Lo Wang, on NPR.org, provided a snippet that included comments under the name "Herman":





and asked "Any feedback on the above folks". I read the whole article, after your response here I can only assume that you didn't bother. My response to this article was:

"It's a whole lotta crap. If this Doug Herman really is the senior geographer at the Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian in Washington, D.C., they really need to get someone else because this is clueless. I'm hoping that Hansi Lo Wang either heard wrong, misquoted Herman or made this all up."


Note, "Herman", and "Hansi Lo Wang" - where do you see "Carapella" anywhere in my response?

Of Carapella's map itself I said four words, "This map is wrong.", and provided several SPECIFIC examples. That said, clearly this comment is inappropriate:




See above re: "crap". Now who EXACTLY did Carapella speak to, what ACTUAL research did he conduct, and what SOURCES did he use? Whatever they are, they obviously proved themselves to be inadequate.

One more thing, Carapella didn't bother to talk to ME, or US. You see, my mother's family is Algonquin, originally from the Outaouais region of Quebec. I have uncles, cousins etc. who have full federal Indian Status, I have my own personal reasons for not applying for same. So when I pointed out "and the tribe known as the "Algonquin" (Omamiwinini) that gave their name to a whole language group, and the last one is nowhere to be found on the map.", it was personal, Carapella obviously didn't talk to anyone in my family about it, we're not even on the map!

My response to Herman's comments i.e. was:

FN people today are called what they want to be called, that's their reality. Some prefer names from languages that few of their members can speak or understand i.e. Innu, Lakota etc. others remain post-contact traditional i.e. Seminole, Windego etc.

Why? My family are "Algonquin", that's the FN/tribal name they use, they don't use "Omamiwinini", does that really make them akin to "Wetbacks" and "Gringos" as Herman would have you believe? I will say it again, he's full of "crap"!!!

As for the rest, Mr. Carapella is welcome to use the endorsements of "Mr. Jeffrey M. Williams" and "Yvonne M. Dennis" to shill his maps, but he's not going to get mine.


I'll finish off with this. Many years ago I was sent to attend a week long "Aboriginal Awareness" course, designed for white collar, largely urban government employees, presented by FN's. Like me, there were several coppers in attendance with plenty of experience working Reserves; comparing notes we soon realised that we had become immersed in the homogenised, warm and fuzzy, kumbaya version of FN history, with FN's as victims; very little of what was was presented actually existed in the real world, none of us had seen it.

At the end of it all, we were asked for feedback, one of our number, a Canine Handler from an elite unit, laid right into it, criticising the course top to bottom. The course managers were livid, went to the Bureau Commander, called the K9 handler racist, wanted him disciplined, etc. It was investigated, the official response was:

"you asked for feedback, accept it with grace, and learn from it."

And that's my gift to you ...
Oh my goodness gracious lol. I stopped reading after your intro...

All I can say is contact Mr Carapella if you have a disagreement with the gentlemen.
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  #18  
Old 28 Apr 17, 19:26
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The Colorado presentation is wildly inaccurate.

As for anyone "contacting Mr. Carapella", you presented his map here as fact; therefore, I'm letting you know that he's wrong.


Native American Tribes of Colorado
The original inhabitants of the area that is now Colorado included:
The Apache nation
The Arapaho nation
The Cheyenne nation
The Pueblo tribes
The Shoshone tribe
The Ute nation
Other Indian tribes whose territory sometimes extended into Colorado
included:
The Comanche tribe
The Kiowa tribe
The Navajo tribe
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  #19  
Old 28 Apr 17, 20:40
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More to the point, irrelevant except to an anthropologist...

Quote:
Yvonne M. Dennis -author of Native American Almanac: More Than 50,000 Years of the Cultures and Histories of Indigenous Peoples
And, they never got beyond the late stone age...

That's hard, but fair.
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