HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Books, Film and Media > Books

Notices and Announcements

Books Looking for a particular reference work? Post it here. Also, talk about what you're currently reading with other members.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09 Apr 17, 10:43
dkatz's Avatar
dkatz dkatz is offline
Private
South_Africa
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: south africa
Posts: 6
dkatz is a balanced individual [0]
South Africans vs Rommel

Stackpole publishers will be releasing my book on South Africa's Desert War 1941-1942 on 15 September 2017. The book is available for pre-order at $29.95 from Amazon and other online booksellers. It deals with the mixed fortunes of the Union Defence Force and incorporates the battles of Sidi Rezegh, Tobruk and Alamein. The book examines the evolution of South African military doctrine, tracing its roots back to the Boer Republics beyond. Revisiting old and uncovering new documents reveals new insights into the trials and tribulations of the South Africans who faced a first class army led by the legendary Rommel.



Book Description


After bitter debate, South Africa, a dominion of the British Empire at the time, declared war on Germany five days after the invasion of Poland in September 1939. Thrust by the British into the campaign against Erwin Rommelís German Afrika Korps in North Africa, the South Africans fought a see-saw war of defeats followed by successes, culminating in the Battle of El Alamein, where South African soldiers made a significant contribution to halting the Desert Foxís advance into Egypt. This is the story of an army committed somewhat reluctantly to a war it didnít fully support, ill-prepared for the battles it was tasked with fighting, and sent into action on the orders of its senior alliance partner. At its heart, however, this is the story of men at war.


About Katz, David Brock


David Brock Katz is a veteran of the modern-day South African Army and holds a masterís degree in military history from Stellenbosch University. He has published articles in academic journals. This is his first book.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SouthAfricans_1.jpg (117.2 KB, 3 views)

Last edited by dkatz; 10 Apr 17 at 03:58..
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 09 Apr 17, 15:58
CarpeDiem's Avatar
CarpeDiem CarpeDiem is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
Canada
Distinguished Service Award Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,811
CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800] CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800]
CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800] CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800] CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800] CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800]
Welcome to the forum!
Your book received a post in our "New and Upcoming World War Two Books" thread : http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...&postcount=233

Looks interesting!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09 Apr 17, 16:14
sebfrench76's Avatar
sebfrench76 sebfrench76 is offline
General of the Forums
France
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Rouen,Normandy
Posts: 7,393
sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Join date April 2005 ?
And it's your first post ?
Something strange here...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09 Apr 17, 21:22
BELGRAVE's Avatar
BELGRAVE BELGRAVE is offline
General of the Forums
Australia
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: PHILIP WHITEHOUSE
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: MELBOURNE
Posts: 5,958
BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600]
BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkatz View Post
Stackpole publishers will be releasing my book on South Africa's Desert War 1941-1942 on 15 September 2017. The book is available for pre-order at $29.95 from Amazon and other online booksellers. It deals with the mixed fortunes of the Union Defence Force and incorporates the battles of Sidi Rezegh, Tobruk and Alamein. The book examines the evolution of South African military doctrine, tracing its roots back to the Boer Republics beyond. Revisiting old and uncovering new documents reveals new insights into the trails and tribulations of the South Africans who faced a first class army led by the legendary Rommel.



Book Description


After bitter debate, South Africa, a dominion of the British Empire at the time, declared war on Germany five days after the invasion of Poland in September 1939. Thrust by the British into the campaign against Erwin Rommelís German Afrika Korps in North Africa, the South Africans fought a see-saw war of defeats followed by successes, culminating in the Battle of El Alamein, where South African soldiers made a significant contribution to halting the Desert Foxís advance into Egypt. This is the story of an army committed somewhat reluctantly to a war it didnít fully support, ill-prepared for the battles it was tasked with fighting, and sent into action on the orders of its senior alliance partner. At its heart, however, this is the story of men at war.


About Katz, David Brock


David Brock Katz is a veteran of the modern-day South African Army and holds a masterís degree in military history from Stellenbosch University. He has published articles in academic journals. This is his first book.
"Thrust by the British into the campaign".
But that was the way of it. Either you're in a war or you're not. How can you conduct operations within a policy of limited liability ?
The Dominion forces, for better or worse, became part of ,and subordinate to, the British command system in North Africa. Therefore ,commanders from the Dominions were ,at times, torn between their immediate commanders on the one hand and the requirements of the home governments on the other.
__________________
"I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
Samuel Johnson.

Last edited by BELGRAVE; 09 Apr 17 at 22:33..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10 Apr 17, 02:09
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
France
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Summer Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 26,947
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
To be fair, Rommel and his band of merry men savaged the British Army, too! Arguably the British lost quite a few divisions and Brigades. There was a problem where the British High Command wanted to use Commonwealth troops like British units! The Manpower shortages were hitting South Africa, Australia and New Zealand before it hit the UK. It would seem that you can't keep throwing men and equipment into an expanding Navy and Air Force AND keep up replacements in an active theater.

The Union of South Africa had lots of Manpower. The trouble was most of it was the wrong Race. The powers that be did not mind putting the Blacks and Mixed Races in Labor units, but only let a few Cape Coloreds actually fight. The British had only let the 2nd South African Division to the Front so it could get some experience. Then Rommel spoiled the plan by breaking through the line!

The two brigades of the 2nd SA found themselves in Tobruk with a Guards Brigade, remnants of an Armor Brigade and some Indian Army units. This time Rommel did not bypass and lay Tobruk under siege. He went around the perimeter and hit what could be called the back door of the position. There were no thick minefields like in the first siege.

Suddenly there was no more 2nd SA and the British tried to get the Union to raise another division! All SA troops eventually went home and a new SA division was raised that could serve out of Africa. It was called the 6th SA and it was a Mixed Division. It went to Italy where the British almost immediately took away one Motor Rifle Brigade and put it in another division. They did attach other troops. I don't know why the SA Government allowed this. The war was almost over before the 2nd SA got its Brigade back.

Pruitt
__________________
Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10 Apr 17, 03:56
dkatz's Avatar
dkatz dkatz is offline
Private
South_Africa
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: south africa
Posts: 6
dkatz is a balanced individual [0]
South Africans vs Rommel

Thank you so much for the plug. I think the book will add significantly to the body of knowledge but more importantly it will provoke debate.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10 Apr 17, 03:59
dkatz's Avatar
dkatz dkatz is offline
Private
South_Africa
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: south africa
Posts: 6
dkatz is a balanced individual [0]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebfrench76 View Post
Join date April 2005 ?
And it's your first post ?
Something strange here...

Been too busy writing the book. hahah
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10 Apr 17, 04:03
dkatz's Avatar
dkatz dkatz is offline
Private
South_Africa
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: south africa
Posts: 6
dkatz is a balanced individual [0]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BELGRAVE View Post
"Thrust by the British into the campaign".
But that was the way of it. Either you're in a war or you're not. How can you conduct operations within a policy of limited liability ?
The Dominion forces, for better or worse, became part of ,and subordinate to, the British command system in North Africa. Therefore ,commanders from the Dominions were ,at times, torn between their immediate commanders on the one hand and the requirements of the home governments on the other.
Interestingly the New Zealanders and the Australians forces in North Africa were subject to a charter whereby the commanding officers of these dominions had direct access and recourse to their governments should they not be happy with a British directive. The South Africans enjoyed no such charter and were obliged to obey British directives.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10 Apr 17, 04:10
dkatz's Avatar
dkatz dkatz is offline
Private
South_Africa
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: south africa
Posts: 6
dkatz is a balanced individual [0]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post

The Union of South Africa had lots of Manpower. The trouble was most of it was the wrong Race. The powers that be did not mind putting the Blacks and Mixed Races in Labor units, but only let a few Cape Coloreds actually fight. The British had only let the 2nd South African Division to the Front so it could get some experience. Then Rommel spoiled the plan by breaking through the line!

The two brigades of the 2nd SA found themselves in Tobruk with a Guards Brigade, remnants of an Armor Brigade and some Indian Army units. This time Rommel did not bypass and lay Tobruk under siege. He went around the perimeter and hit what could be called the back door of the position. There were no thick minefields like in the first siege.


Pruitt
You have raised two interesting points. Indeed South African manpower was hamstrung by its racial policy and those black troops who did enter the Union Defence Force did so as non-combatants. They acquitted themselves bravely, and some were decorated for bravery even as non-combatants.

On the second point, I have uncovered documents and testimony, including from General Klopper himself, that the minefields, barbed wire, anti-tank trenches were not in the state of disrepair as is commonly believed. The book examines other more significant factors that led to the fall of the Tobruk garrison.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10 Apr 17, 04:36
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
France
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Summer Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 26,947
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
So you are saying Rommel's troops went through anti-tank ditches, barbed wire and minefields? Looking at how fast the break-in was made, I am curious as to how they avoided them.

Pruitt
__________________
Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #11  
Old 10 Apr 17, 05:01
BELGRAVE's Avatar
BELGRAVE BELGRAVE is offline
General of the Forums
Australia
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: PHILIP WHITEHOUSE
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: MELBOURNE
Posts: 5,958
BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600]
BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkatz View Post
Interestingly the New Zealanders and the Australians forces in North Africa were subject to a charter whereby the commanding officers of these dominions had direct access and recourse to their governments should they not be happy with a British directive. The South Africans enjoyed no such charter and were obliged to obey British directives.
That I didn't know.Thank you.
__________________
"I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
Samuel Johnson.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10 Apr 17, 10:36
dkatz's Avatar
dkatz dkatz is offline
Private
South_Africa
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: south africa
Posts: 6
dkatz is a balanced individual [0]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
So you are saying Rommel's troops went through anti-tank ditches, barbed wire and minefields? Looking at how fast the break-in was made, I am curious as to how they avoided them.

Pruitt
The attack opened up with a massive Axis air attack and according to the South African commander many mines exploded under the intense bombardment. Rommel then sent in his engineers under cover of his infantry to cut the wire, lift mines, and fill in the ditch for his tanks. The infantry secured the area for the tanks and using a combined arms approach of artillery, tanks, infantry and air assets he was able to overcome the first line of defenders and overwhelm them with superior local fire-power.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:10.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.