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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > Ukrainian Crisis

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Ukrainian Crisis Discuss the unfolding crisis in Ukraine.

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  #31  
Old 25 Mar 17, 05:38
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Whatever, show me some more pictures. That will sure work to convince me.

There are neonazi and Aryan brotherhood groups in every European country including Russia. Russian Neonazis have had rallies in Moscow in Red Square. I bet Russian press purged those pictures by now. Alas, too late, I've seen them.

However, just because there are nazi fanatics in Belgium or France doesn't mean that Belgium or France are Nazi governments as official state policy. They are parliamentary democracies with independent judiciary--something Russia doesn't have.

Hey, former members of Estonian SS, some of them like 95 years old, have marched in an SS parade in Estonia.

Does it make Estonia a fascist country? No, she's a parliamentary democracy with elected representatives. You Russians can only dream about having such a sophisticated form of government in the 21st century.

There are only two totalitarian countries in Europe that are accused of of state-sponsored fascism:

1) Belarus under Lukashenka
2) Russia under Putin

Even if Ukraine is doing controversial things and bad things like allowing this or that battalion to pose with swastikas or allowing Bandera supporters to demonstrate in Kiev it doesn't make Ukraine a fascist country.

In order to have state-sponsored fascism you need a totalitarian nationalistic leader who doesn't tolerate dissent. Read my dictionary definition. You guys are so obsessed with Hitlerism you forgot about fascism in your own country.
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Last edited by MonsterZero; 25 Mar 17 at 09:35..
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  #32  
Old 25 Mar 17, 10:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterZero View Post
Even if Ukraine is doing controversial things and bad things like allowing this or that battalion to pose with swastikas or allowing Bandera supporters to demonstrate in Kiev it doesn't make Ukraine a fascist country.
You have a strange habit of arguing with voices in your head. Did I call Ukraine a fascist country somewhere? What I said actually was that:
1) Mr. Parshov was known to have an far-right views and was a member of ultra nationalist organizations
2) Certain Ukrainian militia units, especially notorious "Azov" battalion/regiment (to which Parshov reportedly belonged) have a reputation of being far-right/neo-nazi political cells.
Quote:
Whatever, show me some more pictures. That will sure work to convince me.
A piece of Putin's propaganda for our readers:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...-get-u-s-money

Irrelevant parts are skipped again. Sorry, you don't know what the word "totalitarian" means, you don't that France is not a parliamentary republic, You opinions on political science questions are of little value, I'm afraid.
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  #33  
Old 26 Mar 17, 15:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyom_A View Post
You have a strange habit of arguing with voices in your head. Did I call Ukraine a fascist country somewhere? What I said actually was that:
1) Mr. Parshov was known to have an far-right views and was a member of ultra nationalist organizations
2) Certain Ukrainian militia units, especially notorious "Azov" battalion/regiment (to which Parshov reportedly belonged) have a reputation of being far-right/neo-nazi political cells.

A piece of Putin's propaganda for our readers:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...-get-u-s-money

Irrelevant parts are skipped again. Sorry, you don't know what the word "totalitarian" means, you don't that France is not a parliamentary republic, You opinions on political science questions are of little value, I'm afraid.
Actually the single biggest strawman created by the Western media in regard to the events in Donbass is that "Russians call all Ukrainians Nazis". I've seen such statements used literally, word to word, in several "respectable" mainstream Western media outlets. And I've never seen them in the Russian media. Theoretically, I can imagine some blogger saying this in a fit of rage, but I only saw this a couple of times in these three years, and such statements had very little approval from other bloggers.
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  #34  
Old 27 Mar 17, 07:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
Actually the single biggest strawman created by the Western media in regard to the events in Donbass is that "Russians call all Ukrainians Nazis". I've seen such statements used literally, word to word, in several "respectable" mainstream Western media outlets. And I've never seen them in the Russian media. Theoretically, I can imagine some blogger saying this in a fit of rage, but I only saw this a couple of times in these three years, and such statements had very little approval from other bloggers.
Well, read this forum and you'll see it more than once.
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  #35  
Old 27 Mar 17, 08:43
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zzzzz.

Quote:
"Russians call all Ukrainians Nazis".
A little bastard of a "quote" isn't it ?

A singe example of this exactly, in any publication, would make your point a bit more believable, at least.

"All Russians call all Ukrainians Nazis."

No.

"Russians call Ukrainians Nazis, regularly."

Yes.

Even the Turks do it these days, "Nazis" are actually gaining sympathy in this fashion.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...enocide-claims
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  #36  
Old 27 Mar 17, 11:37
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It's a meaningless argument. Parshov was called "fascist" or "radical right" by his own comrades-in-arms from a Ukraine militia battalion. That is not some Russian propaganda, but a story told by a Ukrainian journalist:
https://www.facebook.com/butusov.yur...01164169923873
That Ukrainian ultra-right were very active in the Donbass War and in particular in pro-Ukrainian militia is also a well known fact to anybody closely following events there.
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  #37  
Old 28 Mar 17, 13:14
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Information spreads in media that Ukrainian police searches a suspected accomplice of the killer - certain Yaroslav Levenets, a person similar to Parshov in many respects. Member of Ukrainian nationalist organizations, was arrested for economical crimes, volunteered to the Ukrainian "Donbass battalion" (so Parshov's comrade in arms), took part in military actions in Donbass:
https://www.gazeta.ru/social/2017/03/27/10597559.shtml
http://vesti-ukr.com/strana/231665-v...talona-donbass
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  #38  
Old 28 Mar 17, 18:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karri View Post
Well, read this forum and you'll see it more than once.
Oh, really? So where have the people of Ukrainan ethnicity been accused of being Nazis in their entirety, just because they are culturally/genetically Ukrainian.
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  #39  
Old 28 Mar 17, 18:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
A little bastard of a "quote" isn't it ?

A singe example of this exactly, in any publication, would make your point a bit more believable, at least.

"All Russians call all Ukrainians Nazis."

No.

"Russians call Ukrainians Nazis, regularly."

Yes.
You're no friend with either logic nor the English language. Removing the article doesn't make any sense.

I repeat again: bring me up an example from any Russian publication which says the people of Ukrainian ethnicity or culture are Nazis.

As for "some Russians call some Ukrainans Nazis", it doesn't merit any discussion. Because if I call some Belgian Nazi skinheads "Nazis", this would be just that: "some Russians called some Belgians Nazis".

Once again, you are engaging in demagoguery and awkward sophistry where you fail to argue with logic and facts.
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  #40  
Old 29 Mar 17, 04:13
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Here's what you posted :

Quote:
Actually the single biggest strawman created by the Western media in regard to the events in Donbass is that "Russians call all Ukrainians Nazis". I've seen such statements used literally, word to word, in several "respectable" mainstream Western media outlets.
So, post a link to one of these, or several "respectable mainstream Western media outlets" and quote that exact sentence.

Until then your claim, as so many others, is unsubstantiated.
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  #41  
Old 29 Mar 17, 14:07
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Ukrainian SBU official says that at the present moment they don't have any evidences of connections between the killer and the Russian FSB.
https://www.ukrinform.ru/rubric-comm...entom-fsb.html

It should be reminded that just several days earlier Mr. Geraschenko claimed publicly and loudly that they have.
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  #42  
Old 29 Mar 17, 14:12
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Isn't it obvious? FSB hacked SBU!

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  #43  
Old 09 Oct 17, 16:31
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Meanwhile an unexpected turn in the Voronenkov's murder case: Ukrainian investigators now claim that Voronenkov's widow's ex BF slash a mafia boss Vladimir Tyrin is the main figure behind the assassination.
https://lenta.ru/news/2017/10/09/voronenkov/
Surprisingly not a word about Russian undercover operations, FSB hand and other usual stuff.
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  #44  
Old 10 Oct 17, 02:36
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So circumstances have finally allowed Ukraine to develop concerns other than Russia.

That's as it should be, if Russia will only keep its hands away from things long enough.
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  #45  
Old 10 Oct 17, 09:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyom_A View Post
Surprisingly not a word about Russian undercover operations, FSB hand and other usual stuff.
Uhm, no. According to the Ukrainian version "Tyurin was under control of FSB...Tyurin agreed to take part in assassination in exchange for FSB's support in control over criminal world."
https://strana.ua/news/97517-ubijstv...ury-video.html
I've already started to worry that something wrong happened with those guys.
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