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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Modern Wars & Warfare

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Modern Wars & Warfare General discussion on war. Topics that are not covered in any of our sub-forums below. .

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  #16  
Old 07 Mar 17, 21:02
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Various international air intercept procedures/signals.

https://www.faa.gov/news/safety_brie...Procedures.pdf

https://www.faasafety.gov/files/noti...Procedures.pdf

http://www.icao.int/Meetings/anconf1...ons%5B1%5D.pdf
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  #17  
Old 08 Mar 17, 05:26
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Remember the case of Payne Stewart, whose Lear Jet lost pressurization and flew half way across the country before crashing. Would he have been shot down in this day and age? Probably...... From memory there were news reports that the pilots of the stricken jet could be seen slumped in the cockpit.





Edit, Here is a more recent case, of a Doctor who passed out in his aircraft over water in 2012.

light information indicates the Cessna departed from Slidell at 6:43 a.m. and was scheduled to arrive in Sarasota within two hours. The plane, though, went into the water around 11:10 a.m. Central time, roughly 150 miles south of Crestview, Fla., according to a Federal Aviation Administration spokesman. The FAA had been tracking the plane as it made its way across the Gulf of Mexico, then lost contact with it shortly before 8 a.m. time, he said.

By 8:30 a.m., the North American Aerospace Defense Command directed two F-15s from the 159th Fighter Wing in New Orleans to intercept and monitor the plane. The jets reported the pilot was unresponsive, and they observed the plane's windshield was iced over as it circled over the water at 28,000 feet, a series of events implying a possible loss of cabin pressure in the Cessna.
dr peter hertzak.jpgDr. Peter Hertzak

The jets stayed with the plane until it crashed into the Gulf of Mexico. Before sinking, the plane landed softly in the water and was intact, floating right-side up, said Petty Officer Elizabeth Bordelon of the Coast Guard 8th District in New Orleans.



If this happened over land one could imagine that the aircraft might get shot down. Depends on if the intercepting Fighter thought the pilot was foxing and was drifting towards a likely target.

http://www.nola.com/traffic/index.ss...ed_dead_i.html
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Last edited by Chukka; 08 Mar 17 at 05:33..
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  #18  
Old 09 Mar 17, 16:52
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Originally Posted by Bluenose View Post
They are classified, but there is a difference between authority to engage and decision on how and when to engage. Former would be political, latter might well - and should - devolve to a ranking oficer in contact with the pilots.
Sure, given the leisure of the time that makes sense. There must be scenarios where there is no time to make the call, have the Minister immediately answer, have a chat and get a decision. A decision must be made very quickly and I expect standing orders are in place for this.
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Old 09 Mar 17, 18:13
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Sure, given the leisure of the time that makes sense. There must be scenarios where there is no time to make the call, have the Minister immediately answer, have a chat and get a decision. A decision must be made very quickly and I expect standing orders are in place for this.
Undoubtedly and any sensible RoE should have a '**** hits the fan' proceedure. I would guess that such would nominate the OC of whatever constituted the fighter control centre at the time, in concert with the intercepting pilot's own assessment.

Whatever happened, the Guardian would still complain.
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Old 10 Mar 17, 06:18
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Originally Posted by Bluenose View Post
Undoubtedly and any sensible RoE should have a '**** hits the fan' proceedure. I would guess that such would nominate the OC of whatever constituted the fighter control centre at the time, in concert with the intercepting pilot's own assessment.

Whatever happened, the Guardian would still complain.
Especially when current UK threat levels are running at the highest permitted for a sustained period (the only higher being for short periods when an attack is known to be imminent)
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  #21  
Old 10 Mar 17, 07:35
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Especially when current UK threat levels are running at the highest permitted for a sustained period (the only higher being for short periods when an attack is known to be imminent)
The RoE and decision procedures should be threat-level independent at base, but there are likely be options or specificities depending upon circumstances.

You cannot have really afford a leisurely response time just because we are in Bikini State Black (as it was in the good old days) on a given day.
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