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Modern Wars & Warfare General discussion on war. Topics that are not covered in any of our sub-forums below. .

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  #106  
Old 02 Dec 16, 03:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
If you think about it, just about all "massacres" happened to us! If we massacred someone else it was a "battle".
Sand Creek Massacre National Historic Site - entrance sign
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  #107  
Old 02 Dec 16, 07:39
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre
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  #108  
Old 02 Dec 16, 09:44
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malmedy_massacre
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  #109  
Old 03 Dec 16, 21:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jf42 View Post
Massacre is a word that seems to appear more regularly in American history than elsewhere, applied frequently to a situation where a military force screwed up, or ran oiut of luck, and got severely pasted even to the point of annihilation.

Paoli Tavern, Old Tappan, Fetterman, Kidder, Custer.... a random selection

Without looking up a dictionary definition of 'massacre' it seems to me it should involve an unequal struggle where the victims' ability to defend themselves is severely limited, if it exists at all. When the commander of a detachment recklessly leads his men into trouble, as did Grattan in 1854, and provokes an unequal, fatal struggle with members of a notoriouly irritable, war-like tribe, the term being consulted in the dictionary should be 'monumental fnck up' not 'massacre.'
Hence putting it as question. It seems to meet the standard for society, but in truth was the result of a singular moment of stupidity. imagine the thoughts of the men dying because of that idiot.
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  #110  
Old 14 Dec 16, 07:00
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A few books come to mind:
"Last Stand at Khe Sahn" ( Gregg Jones) Vietnam
" The Outpost",(Jake Tapper"/"Outlaw Platoon"(Sean Parnell)/ "Roberts Ridge" (Malcolm MacPhearson) All of Eastern Afghanistan Wars
"Ship of Ghosts"(U.S.S.Houston) early WW2 James D. Hornfischer
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  #111  
Old 23 Dec 16, 02:50
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1. Fetterman Massarce

2. Little Bighorn

3. Wake Island

4. Operation Red Wings
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  #112  
Old 30 Dec 16, 14:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
Not to mention the Japanese; they fought to the last man as a matter of habit.

IIRC the 173rd lost a detachment during Operation Hump that literally fought to the last.

During IDrang the 1/7 Cav had a platoon cut off that survived, but it certainly was on the route to 'the last man'.

If as suggested we count early naval actions,. I think there was an action on the Great Lakes during the War of 1812 that would count, but the details escape me at this late hour.
I have been reading Slim's account of the Burma campaign and the Japs routinely fought to the last man. Often no prisoners taken at all. Slim described them as 'the finest fighting insect of all time'.
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  #113  
Old 30 Dec 16, 15:56
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As regards the OP, most people have given historical examples (very interesting too) but I don't think anyone has drawn together the reasons they happen. Here are a few suggestions

1) high motivation of the defender, unwilling to retreat or surrender

2) positive strategic choice (thnk Spartans at Thermopolye)

3) poor strategic choice (think some of the crusader campaign battles) or tactical success of the enemy in creating a kill box.

4) poor intelligence of enemy movements, strength, position

5) logistical failings, including transport or essential supplies.
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  #114  
Old 05 Feb 17, 01:42
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Recon Team Kansas

http://www.macvsog.cc/the_last_stand_of_rt_kansas.htm
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  #115  
Old 05 Feb 17, 14:05
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Can we include the Marine defense of Khe Sahn?
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