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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > World War II > Armor in World War II

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Armor in World War II Discuss all aspects & disciplines of World War II Armor here.

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  #1  
Old 07 Dec 16, 06:50
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Thumbs up Comparative tank mobility in terrain video

Quote:
This 1951 film, produced by the Swedish army, explains tank cross-country driving and what makes a tank good in rough terrain by showing examples with a few different tanks in different weight classes.

Features a Panther, a Sherman (actually a Firefly in most of the tests), a Strv m/42 and (in a few tests) a Churchill. A Strv m/41 (license-built TNH, aka. Pz. 38(t)) can also be glimpsed briefly. Sadly, there is only a speaker voice and no original engine sounds.


Sadly there is no T34 on this video, that would have been interesting.
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  #2  
Old 07 Dec 16, 17:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VieuxChat View Post


Sadly there is no T34 on this video, that would have been interesting.
I recently posted that video on an armchair attacks thread .

It gave one reason why the Churchill was superior to the other tanks compared, ie maximum ground pressure was the lowest.
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Old 07 Dec 16, 17:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
I recently posted that video on an armchair attacks thread .

It gave one reason why the Churchill was superior to the other tanks compared, ie maximum ground pressure was the lowest.

(Sorry for the repost)

I'm constantly impressed by the Panther tank qualities.
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Old 07 Dec 16, 17:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VieuxChat View Post
(Sorry for the repost)

I'm constantly impressed by the Panther tank qualities.
No worries .

A working Panther was a very good tank indeed. However, even if it had been equipped with a decent engine and drive train, it was still a very large tank for its firepower, and with relatively thin side armour, especially for its weight. The Soviets considered the Panther more akin to a tank destroyer than an actual tank.
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  #5  
Old 08 Dec 16, 15:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
No worries .

A working Panther was a very good tank indeed. However, even if it had been equipped with a decent engine and drive train, it was still a very large tank for its firepower, and with relatively thin side armour, especially for its weight. The Soviets considered the Panther more akin to a tank destroyer than an actual tank.
There was also issues with the engine...?

Last edited by FireGodHamster; 08 Dec 16 at 15:11..
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  #6  
Old 10 Dec 16, 22:37
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  #7  
Old 11 Dec 16, 08:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
I recently posted that video on an armchair attacks thread .

It gave one reason why the Churchill was superior to the other tanks compared, ie maximum ground pressure was the lowest.
But the speed Nick or lack of speed...
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Old 14 Dec 16, 15:09
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It must have been a real eye-opener for people to see how a Light tank can have far less mobility than a good heavy tank.
And the Panther was a good one. but I think that the Sherman driver could have been a lot more aggressive.

I was waiting to see a note from the Forest test; "And this tank became stuck, remaining right where we left it to this day."
But, apparently, that is exactly what happened to that poor old Churchill!
:P
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Old 14 Dec 16, 15:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
But the speed Nick or lack of speed...
Speed is not as important as many people think .

When pursuing an enemy, what you actually need is reliability and ease of maintenance. A better mpg doesn't hurt either.

When exploiting terrain you need decent cross country ability, and the Churchill was second to none in that department.

During an actual battle, tanks need to support and be supported by infantry, thus speed is again not a real requirement. The Soviets tried using T-34's unsupported in 1941, and they got shot up badly. Despite being superior to the German machines in many real attributes, such as firepower, protection and, of course, speed, lack of infantry rendered them impotent.

WW2 tank author, Harry Yeide, noted that speed did not equal protection, a major reason why one M10 unit refused to accept M18 Hellcats as replacements. What high speed is incredibly useful for is for scout and recce units. Obviously the Churchill fails in that role. Speed is good, but not a priority many give tanks credit for.
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Old 15 Dec 16, 06:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
Speed is not as important as many people think .

When pursuing an enemy, what you actually need is reliability and ease of maintenance. A better mpg doesn't hurt either.

When exploiting terrain you need decent cross country ability, and the Churchill was second to none in that department.

During an actual battle, tanks need to support and be supported by infantry, thus speed is again not a real requirement. The Soviets tried using T-34's unsupported in 1941, and they got shot up badly. Despite being superior to the German machines in many real attributes, such as firepower, protection and, of course, speed, lack of infantry rendered them impotent.

WW2 tank author, Harry Yeide, noted that speed did not equal protection, a major reason why one M10 unit refused to accept M18 Hellcats as replacements. What high speed is incredibly useful for is for scout and recce units. Obviously the Churchill fails in that role. Speed is good, but not a priority many give tanks credit for.
When pursuing an enemy, you need decent reconnaissance. You also need to be moving faster than the enemy, otherwise it becomes a failed car chase.

The Churchill's cross-country ability was second to several. It's primary failing was the lack of a decent HE shell for most of its career. You may blather on about how good a hole puncher the 2 and 6 pdrs were, but against soft targets (which were the predominant target) they became the 2 or 6 pdr sniper rifle.
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