HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion > American Revolution

Notices and Announcements

American Revolution 1763-1789 The birth of a new nation - to commence at the Proclaimation of 1763 to the end of the Articles of Confederation.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 21 Dec 15, 04:37
Half Pint John's Avatar
Half Pint John Half Pint John is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Real Name: John (NO LABELS)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stuttgart Germany
Posts: 47,322
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]  [+1]
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Consider that everyone was British except the Hessian's and French. Even the "Americans" were British citizens, just not treated as such.
__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you"

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

'half-baked, spurious nationalism'
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 21 Dec 15, 07:14
Elijah's Avatar
Elijah Elijah is offline
Captain
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Wayne Lynch
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Galveston
Posts: 885
Elijah is on the path to success [1-99] Elijah is on the path to success [1-99] Elijah is on the path to success [1-99] Elijah is on the path to success [1-99] Elijah is on the path to success [1-99] Elijah is on the path to success [1-99]
Hessian Jaegers

Here is a short description of Hessian Jaegers from the book, The Hessian View of America 1776 - 1783 by Ernst Kipping

"Hessian Jaegers. In 1776, the jaegers were organized into companies of foot soldiers. they were chosen for this service mainly because they were expert riflemen. The name jaeger literally means huntsman. Jaegers were recruited in Germany mainly from the ranks of gamekeepers and foresters. As the war progressed, the effectiveness of the jaegers was noted, and their numbers increased; some became mounted troops. Ultimately the jaeger units of Hesse-Cassel, Hesse - Hanau, and Anspach-Bayreuth were organized into a corps under Hessian Lt Colonel Ludwig Adolf Von Wurmb. Jaegers were often called 'green-coats' by the Americans because of the jaeger green jackets. The trousers of their dress uniforms were yellow, but contemporary drqwings and descriptions of jaegers indicate that their field uniforms called for green pants as well as jackets, undoubtedly for reasons of camouflage. . . .Hessian jaeger uniforms are described in the army register as follows: Coat; dark green, revers red; cuff's red, buttonholes lapeled and yellow; . . Boots: black, Hat: black with green and red feather. Rifle and cartridge pouch. Knife."



Additionally, I once read a description of jaeger fighting in Captain Johann Ewald's diary. They had some limitations similar to the problems that Daniel Morgan had with his riflemen. They couldn't stand up to bayonets and needed to be supported by light infantry when in battle.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 21 Dec 15, 12:27
dgfred's Avatar
dgfred dgfred is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Greg
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: N.C., USA
Posts: 8,060
dgfred is a glorious beacon of light [700]
dgfred is a glorious beacon of light [700] dgfred is a glorious beacon of light [700] dgfred is a glorious beacon of light [700] dgfred is a glorious beacon of light [700] dgfred is a glorious beacon of light [700] dgfred is a glorious beacon of light [700] dgfred is a glorious beacon of light [700] dgfred is a glorious beacon of light [700] dgfred is a glorious beacon of light [700] dgfred is a glorious beacon of light [700] dgfred is a glorious beacon of light [700] dgfred is a glorious beacon of light [700] dgfred is a glorious beacon of light [700] dgfred is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Tough choices.

Were Highlanders volunteers?

'I am a Hessian without no aggression'

as Yosemite Sam might say .
__________________
SPORTS FREAK/ PANZERBLITZ COMMANDER/ CC2 COMMANDER
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 23 Dec 15, 14:44
jf42's Avatar
jf42 jf42 is offline
Second Lieutenant
UK
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London
Posts: 433
jf42 is on the path to success [1-99] jf42 is on the path to success [1-99] jf42 is on the path to success [1-99]
Use enough adjectives, there, Butch?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 23 Dec 15, 15:04
Taylor Ahern's Avatar
Taylor Ahern Taylor Ahern is offline
Second Lieutenant
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
 
Real Name: Taylor
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Squantum Massachusetts
Posts: 452
Taylor Ahern is simply cracking [600]
Taylor Ahern is simply cracking [600] Taylor Ahern is simply cracking [600] Taylor Ahern is simply cracking [600] Taylor Ahern is simply cracking [600] Taylor Ahern is simply cracking [600] Taylor Ahern is simply cracking [600] Taylor Ahern is simply cracking [600] Taylor Ahern is simply cracking [600] Taylor Ahern is simply cracking [600] Taylor Ahern is simply cracking [600] Taylor Ahern is simply cracking [600]
Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by jf42 View Post
Use enough adjectives, there, Butch?
I think I did. My bad. I often get carried away. Sorry. Thing is, when I feel strongly and passionately about something, I have this rather pathological tendency to rely on colorful, and, at times, superfluous language.

Though when one's genuine admiration for English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh and certain German soldiers runs deep, the result often is this post that could be construed as too colorful, and maybe a bit too absurdly vibrant.

Gotta rein it in a little bit, and be a bit more selective in terms of the type of adjectives I ultimately choose, so as to nail home my point or describe the overall combat abilities or battlefield prowess of certain regiments and units. Thank you my man (for reminding me)!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #21  
Old 02 Jan 16, 04:18
History fan's Avatar
History fan History fan is offline
Colonel
UK
 
Real Name: Geraint
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chelmsford
Posts: 1,825
History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRJ View Post
Thanks, Paul.

So it seems the 60th Royal Americans had little role in the American Revolution. And since Robert Rogers and his Queen's Rangers had only a minor role, the German Jaegers probably were the best light infantry and skirmishing force fielded by the British during the American Revolution.
The 60th were involved in the Siege of Pensacola against the Spanish in Florida.

While the Queens Rangers had a huge role in the war but Roberts himself lost his command to drunkenness. The best commander for the Queens Rangers was John Graves Simcoe. Arguably (and for me) the best unit in the war.

Both He and the Rangers have been pretty demonised in that Billy Elliot series that's been on recently.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02 Jan 16, 20:06
McMax's Avatar
McMax McMax is offline
Brigadier General
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wilmington NC
Posts: 2,453
McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor Ahern View Post
I can't disagree with you on that above assertion. For those bad ass, highly skilled and thoroughly proficient Hessian Jaegers were some of the best, most versatile and deadliest soldiers in the World back then.

I've also read that they were often found in the vanguard of most advancing British formations, and could move through and skirmish in the woods better than just about any other soldiers in operation in North America (Robert's and the Queen's Rangers excepted. Yet as lethal, exceedingly mobile and highly accurate sharpshooters I would rank the Hessian Jaegers above the heavily Irish, Scottish and Scots-Irish Rangers. Though when fighting up close and personal with knives, musket butts and tomahawks I would give those light infantry Rangers the edge, pun intended, while the Rangers were more likely to go far deeper on reconnaissance missions. Both were equally mobile, aggressive, resilient, self reliant, tenacious and hard fighting, granted the Jaegers played a much larger and more prominent role during the Revolution).

And I believe that it was the British General Cornwallis who stated that ""One Jaeger is worth more than 10 rebels soldiers."" Or something to that effect.

Yes, the Jaegers were that good, that superbly individualistic, that capable and that professional, as 10,000 such men alone could have won that conflict for the British.

Also, I've made mention of the Hessian Jaegers several times in the ""best military units of all time"" thread, as they were the elite of the Hessians, who themselves were pretty elite. The elite of the elite.

So therefore it would be this major sin, and this great insult, not to designate the Jaeger units as some of the most elite and formidable troops on the planet back then, as those crack units were as fierce, wily, dedicated, cool under fire, mobile, adept at skirmishing and fierce as any, anywhere, fighting under any flag at anytime.

I would be deeply, deeply honored to fight along side that legendary and outstanding group of light infantrymen, men who inflicted much bloody damage upon their colonial counterparts, and the overall battle record of those tough, quick thinking, flexible, insanely persistent and ultra proficient Hessian Jaegers was extremely commendable, and unsurpassed (or ""unequaled,"" as has been written).

Basically, ranking the Hessian Jaegers as the finest, best trained and most coolly professional soldiers that fought on either side of that seminal conflict would be NO STRETCH. They might have been the best soldiers in the World--

(I would even venture to assert that those thoroughly mobile light infantry units, the Jaegers, were the rough, late 18th century equivalent of the ever ready, extremely dependable, unyielding, super professional, hard as coffin nails and utterly die hard German paratroops of 1940 till middle 1944, the famed and feared Fallschirmjager, who, back in early 1944, were deemed in many quarters as the best soldiers on the planet. Much like the fast moving Hessian Jaegers of the late 1700's they would rather bleed to death than yield, and made spectacular and brilliant use of their surrounding terrain. BAD ASS MOTHER****ERS!!)

That's just my take on this subject. Though to each his own.

WOW, No wonder the Americans lost the War for Independence faced with fighting such supermen like them...oh wait we did win the war, never mind.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03 Jan 16, 03:18
History fan's Avatar
History fan History fan is offline
Colonel
UK
 
Real Name: Geraint
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chelmsford
Posts: 1,825
History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by McMax View Post
WOW, No wonder the Americans lost the War for Independence faced with fighting such supermen like them...oh wait we did win the war, never mind.
That's not sarcasm btw

And how do you think the US (not we unless you were there at the time) did win the war ?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03 Jan 16, 10:16
R. Evans's Avatar
R. Evans R. Evans is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Summer Campaign 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Real Name: Bob Evans
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Salem, OH
Posts: 14,914
R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by History fan View Post
That's not sarcasm btw

And how do you think the US (not we unless you were there at the time) did win the war ?
A multitude of reasons. Take your pick of luck, British war weariness or just half heartedness, France and to a lesser extent Spain and the ability of Washington to avoid having his army destroyed time and time again.

My choices are luck and France.
__________________
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03 Jan 16, 12:38
McMax's Avatar
McMax McMax is offline
Brigadier General
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wilmington NC
Posts: 2,453
McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by History fan View Post
That's not sarcasm btw

And how do you think the US (not we unless you were there at the time) did win the war ?

As in any war there are a variety of reasons for victory but what matters is that America won and you Brits lost.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03 Jan 16, 12:40
Selous's Avatar
Selous Selous is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
England
Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Mercia
Posts: 8,823
Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900]
Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900]
What is the metric of 'best'?
__________________
------
'I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.' - Thomas Jefferson

If you have questions about the forum please check the FAQ/Rules
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03 Jan 16, 13:10
McMax's Avatar
McMax McMax is offline
Brigadier General
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wilmington NC
Posts: 2,453
McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300] McMax is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selous View Post
What is the metric of 'best'?
I find that no matter who is put up as the "Best" you always discover that they were defeated at one time or another. Such as the Hessian et,al, were beaten at Trenton, Bennington, Saratoga and Yorktown.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03 Jan 16, 13:30
Selous's Avatar
Selous Selous is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
England
Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Mercia
Posts: 8,823
Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900]
Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900]
Invariably, it's very difficult to assign such a quality without the most rigorous preamble on the metrics and criteria used. Which is less fun, I suppose.
At one point near, or perhaps during this period (probably from the Napoleonic wars- I've no source to hand, so do take this with the pinch of salt), the Midlander was considered best at standing and holding the line, the celt however was better for assault, and less capable of standing firm. Perhaps a truism, a romanticised notion, or something with a grain of fact - very hard to determine, but it does raise the point there are different things one can be 'best' at.
__________________
------
'I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.' - Thomas Jefferson

If you have questions about the forum please check the FAQ/Rules
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03 Jan 16, 14:37
History fan's Avatar
History fan History fan is offline
Colonel
UK
 
Real Name: Geraint
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chelmsford
Posts: 1,825
History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100] History fan has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by McMax View Post
I find that no matter who is put up as the "Best" you always discover that they were defeated at one time or another. Such as the Hessian et,al, were beaten at Trenton, Bennington, Saratoga and Yorktown.
Were the Jagers at the first 3 ?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 18 Jan 16, 14:04
jf42's Avatar
jf42 jf42 is offline
Second Lieutenant
UK
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London
Posts: 433
jf42 is on the path to success [1-99] jf42 is on the path to success [1-99] jf42 is on the path to success [1-99]
I am sure I read that the 60th were kept away from the main theatres of fighting because of concern that certain elements in the ranks having been recruited in the colonies to defend western settlements might have divided loyalties. Obviously frontier defence had been the responsibility of all Crown regiments and it had been 20 years since the regiment was first raised, so that few of the original troops raised in 1755 would still have been serving. Reports of the regiment's bushfighting capabilities seem to have been exaggerated, so that the army was not necessarily depriving itself of the services of specialist troops exactly when they were needed. most.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 13:02.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.