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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > World War II > Spanish Civil War

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Spanish Civil War This forum is for discussion of the Spanish Civil War. , this sub-forum appears in the World War II section because Spain was both a training ground for and preview of what was about to break loose in Europe.

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  #46  
Old 04 Apr 13, 16:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Fraser View Post
That is what you would read. The assistance of Nazi Germany is widely documented in English, especially the aircraft contingent. The Italian contribution was much greater, but gets scant mention.

http://www.belliludi.com/sullivan_english.html

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Scott Fraser
I just read somewhere yesterday that Franco's troops were ferried over from Africa in Ju-52s. Italian SM-81s helped too. Poor Italians don't get no respect.
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  #47  
Old 04 Apr 13, 20:51
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Originally Posted by joshualisec View Post
I completed an honors project in college about the Civil War. From what I learned, I believe that the fascists wouldn't have been successful in their coup without Nazi suppliers.
I don't believe that the Germans cared to much about the victors of that war,it was just a great chance to get some 'live' practice in. lcm1
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  #48  
Old 04 Apr 13, 21:49
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Desiree Clary is right when she says that Franco's troops were being ferried across from Morocco. They were also protected from the loyal Spanish navy's intervention by the German pocket battleships (like WWi battlecruisers) Deutschland and Admiral Scheer, the latter escorted Franco's troops to mainland Spain. At the same time the first major airlift of troops in history started.

The airlift started with a few French Breguets, Nieuports and Italian Savoias. The major transport from North Africa to Spain was conducted by Junkers52s sent by Hitler. The Loyalists were deterred from attacking the transport vessels of the Army of Africa by the presence of the Deutschland and Admiral Scheer battleships openly supporting the rebellion.

In this way the insurgents were able to transport heavy equipment to Cadiz and then to Sevilla to consolidate the rebellion in the south of the peninsula.

The airlifts were started with these ancient old planes. French Breguets, Italian Savoias and French Breguets, but mostly by Junkers 52 supplied by Hitler.

Ref: The Battle for Spain, Antony Beevor, pages 71- 73 ISBN0.14.30.3765X, published 1982.
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  #49  
Old 26 Aug 15, 23:40
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Since the Spanish Civil War is now a subcategory on World War II I thought I'd bring this back up.
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  #50  
Old 27 Aug 15, 05:12
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Originally Posted by lcm1 View Post
I don't believe that the Germans cared to much about the victors of that war,it was just a great chance to get some 'live' practice in. lcm1

Yes, a nice and big training range in which you didn't have to worry about the civilians.
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  #51  
Old 27 Aug 15, 10:42
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I'm not so sure I agree. If you look at the newsreels of the time, you notice how much both the Italians and the Germans exploited the Spanish Civil War for propaganda purposes. The myth of invincibility of the Wehrmacht began there, and it certainly was useful both internally and abroad. Internally, the Condor Legion was pretty popular and it seemed to foresee things to come.
Abroad, the Czechoslovakians gave up under explicit threat of air bombardment of their cities - how much did Guernica affect their reaction?

In Italy, the population rallied behind Mussolini in reaction to the sanctions of the LoN following the invasion of Ethiopia. While the sanctions were built in such a way as to not hamper the military effort, they did bite the civilians' lifestyle. The Italians in all likelihood could make use of some encouraging news from the regime's military adventures. These came both from Africa and from Spain. And, of course, if the Spanish Civil War had seen the defeat of the side supported by Germany and Italy, this positive propaganda would not have existed.

Secondarily, both Axis powers were pretty interested in Spanish resources, namely strategic minerals and basing rights. This came to essentially nothing for Italy, but Germany did gain something - again, a Republican victory would have given them nothing.

Also a secondary concern was that lots of political dissidents had already flocked to Spain before the beginning of the war, and more arrived from france and elsewhere. Defeating the Spanish Republic thus also meant getting rid of them. Not an all-important objective, but the Fascists, for instance, did take pains to persecute important political opposers abroad, so it was a good opportunity. Again, a Republican victory has the opposite effect, saving all of these and offering a safe haven for more.

All in all, my impression is that a Nationalist defeat would not have been the end of the world for either Nazism or Fascism, but I wouldn't say that whoever won it did not matter to Hitler and Mussolini.
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  #52  
Old 27 Aug 15, 11:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michele View Post
...
All in all, my impression is that a Nationalist defeat would not have been the end of the world for either Nazism or Fascism, but I wouldn't say that whoever won it did not matter to Hitler and Mussolini.
Me, either. The propaganda aspects of the Luftwaffe was also very important in getting people like Lindbergh interested enough to visit and becoming an advocate of peace at any price. +1

Susie
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  #53  
Old 27 Aug 15, 12:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michele View Post

All in all, my impression is that a Nationalist defeat would not have been the end of the world for either Nazism or Fascism, but I wouldn't say that whoever won it did not matter to Hitler and Mussolini.
Especially since after the fall of France a neutral but sympathetic Spain proved very useful to Germany and Italy as a conduit for some strategic materials so for example almost all their supplies of Wolfram (tungsten) came out of Portugal and through Spain to France Tungsten was not only key to some AP munitions but it played a vital role in the production of machine tool bits for both countries' war industry.
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  #54  
Old 02 Sep 15, 09:39
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Quote:
All in all, my impression is that a Nationalist defeat would not have been the end of the world for either Nazism or Fascism, but I wouldn't say that whoever won it did not matter to Hitler and Mussolini.
I quite agree with you; both governments but particularly Nazism had a strong 'clash of civilizations' theme and the Spanish war was a good opportunity to demonstrate the superiority of their values over Communist, International Socialism and Liberal Democracy.

Good chance to proxy-bash bash the USSR, as well.
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