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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Warfare Through the Ages > Age of Pike and Shot

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Age of Pike and Shot 30 Years War, War of Spanish Succession, English Civil War, etc.

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  #61  
Old 11 Oct 08, 09:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granatiere View Post
Great Post Captain! I like to learn about unknown (to me) battle...
Well, the Tercio was so tactically flexible?
Grazie, Granatiere, I'll see what websites in English I can come up with.

I must confess I have used the term 'tercio' loosely in my post. It is my understanding that a tercio (about 1,500) was not a tactically flexible formation on the battlefield (Dutch prince Maurice of Nassau and after him Swedish king Gustavus Adolphus exploited this point). Crossing over the bottom of a sea at low tide cannot be done in a rigid formation. I assume that the Spanish crossed in 'single file' likely using guides to show them the way through the shallowest spots.

FYI: The Dutch army in certain exercises does train this element: formations are 'skirmish' at best, but 'Indian file' like the Spanish most of the time due to the erratic 'lay of the land'.


This picture gives you an idea of the exercise some 20 years ago. At this stage the troops seem to stick very close to the shore. Soon they will turn left and face this sort of challenge, like Mondragon did.


BTW: the walking over the bottom of the sea is now a tourist experience in the Netherlands.
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  #62  
Old 20 Oct 08, 20:31
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Capt. Sennef, If you can read Spanish, you would enjoy Arturo Perez-Reverte's "El Sol de Breda", and "Corsarios de Levante", both historical novels which contain interesting descriptions of life in the Tercios and how they fought.
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  #63  
Old 21 Oct 08, 12:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lirelou View Post
Capt. Sennef, If you can read Spanish, you would enjoy Arturo Perez-Reverte's "El Sol de Breda", and "Corsarios de Levante", both historical novels which contain interesting descriptions of life in the Tercios and how they fought.
Thanks lirelou.
I know Captain Alatriste and Purity of Blood by Arturo Perez-Reverte (read them in English as I don't know Spanish. Wonder what 'Sun over Breda' will do
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  #64  
Old 02 Aug 10, 04:41
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Battle of Rocroi that could have ended more gentlemanly...

My fav moment is when, at the closing stage of the battle, two remaining spanish tercios on the field tried to surrender, under heavy canon fire, to Prince Conde of France.

Conde rode up to accept the surrender and was mistaken by the hapless Spaniards as another wave of French cavalry charge!!


Spanish musketeers fired at the prince. Enraged, Conde ordered the heavy guns to pound the tercios to dust.

Total Spanish loss 15,000
French loss 4,000

"Le grand Conde"
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  #65  
Old 06 Aug 10, 18:24
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Bug-eyed and ruthless.
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  #66  
Old 30 Nov 10, 09:38
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The battle of Pavia 1525.
one of my fauvorite battles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Pavia


And battle of Fehrbellin 1675.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fehrbellin
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  #67  
Old 23 Mar 11, 13:09
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Battle of Inverlochy 1645

Monstrose at his absolute finest:

In the dead of winter, with no supplies, he marches nearly 30 miles in 36 hours, over mountains and through waist deep snow to attack the Duke of Argyll, who outnumbers him at least 2 to 1.

As the sun rises behind him, he unfurls his banner and launches a devasting highland charge downhill on the Campbells and Covenanter militia destroying them, his Captain Alasdair MacColla personally beheading, with the infamous double-handed Claymore, the Covenant Commander Duncan Campbell of Auchinbreck.


It was said that Montrose told his men: "If ye would have your breakfast, it lies down there in the Campbells camp."

Ian Lom McDonald, the great bard, composed the triumph of all Gaelic war odes: "That Morning of Inverlochy" after watching the battle from the nearby hillside.

It was over quickly, as the rising sun fully dispersed the shadows on the shore of the blood-tinted loch, the Cameron piper played their piobroch: "Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil" "Come sons of hounds and feast here on flesh." over 1,500 of the 3,000-strong Covenant army lay hacked and smashed, either in hard-fought clumps near the camp, or smeared along the shore marking their panic-stricken rout.

The kites and hawks and foxes and wolves feasted for days on the flesh of the fallen and the power of Clan Campbell was broken for a generation.

--T--
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Last edited by Toisach; 23 Mar 11 at 13:20..
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  #68  
Old 29 Feb 12, 00:15
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Battle of Marignano 1515. French v. Swiss.

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  #69  
Old 26 Apr 12, 05:36
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The Anglo-Dutch Wars.

Ed.
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  #70  
Old 04 Jul 12, 04:38
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Vienna

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janos View Post
Siege of Vienna, saved Europe from being overrun by the Ottomans. IMHO the most important battle in history.
I assume you mean the siege of 1529, of Suleyman.

Imho the second siege, while coming even closer to success, was already a doomed campaign. The Ottomans had lost the industrial and scientific race and thus the military edge - taking Vienna would not have made any strategical change, and probably even unified the western powers towards a common effort.

Loosing in 1529 would have been disastrous. Suleyman had 35 years of active military rulership before him, and would have changed the heart of Europe.


Back to the original topic: the Siege of Malta 1565 always catches my imagination - certainly one of the closest battles ever fought, even when the strategical importance is probably less then often claimed. Being so near to Sicily it would not have been too hard to take it back. It certainly was a major motivational boost, however. This action was the last major campaign fought under Suleyman. He also realized that the defeat as it was could not stand and prepared another invasion which he wanted to lead in person next year, but he died before it went off.

If we take a conflict, not a single battle, the Italian wars from 1502 to 1525 certainly have shaped and transformed the armies of Europe, and were one of the most bloody and yet colourfull and innovative era.
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Old 21 Jan 13, 15:12
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I am most interested in the wars of Poland in this period. It's hard to imagine now, but Poland was a great power of the time. It is a true moment in history that I find interesting, but that there is so much to it that I'm only able to find in general histories or in stories that have been translated.
The Ukrainian frontier is my favorite part of this drama. The Cossacks were simpler, wilder, and believed themselves to be holy warriors. They were like the frontier cowboy taken to an extreme, except that they found themselves as soldiers in a series of war. Yes the Poles were more civilized, but it's hard not to sympathize with a rougher and more free people who truly lived on the edge of Christian civilization. It's all very fascinating to read about.

Also of interest in this period is the Vicomte de Turenne and his career, through the end of the 30 years war to Louis XIV's wars. A sadly overlooked general.
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  #72  
Old 21 Mar 13, 15:59
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Thirty Years' War, due to its shear magnitude and how it affected so many in so many different ways
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  #73  
Old 25 Jun 15, 11:18
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For sure the Thirty Years' War, English Civil War and of course Jan Sobieski relieving Vienna are all militarily and historically notable.

The next 'period,' the 18th century with the Great Northern War and Wars of the Spanish Succession and of course the Seven Years’ War, I feel (personally) to fall outside the pike and shot era, but also never fail to interest.

Again, a personal view, but while history does not suddenly change on the turn of the century clock, in my mind, not only the styles of warfare changed significantly – ok tactics and military technology evolved in a continuum; I feel the flavour of the two centuries were quite distinct in music, fashion and art as well. i.e. I don’t feel the century change to be such an arbitrary division. In a way, the reign of King George and the ‘modern’ parliament in Britain helped to reinforce the divide the two centuries between the Houses of Stuart and Hannover.

From my mid-teens, battle reenactment solidified my passion for the ECW and the 17th century in general and as lead figurine wargaming took a hold the 18th century had its own aesthetic that had an appeal. That and the fact the rest of the world seemed to concentrate (at least at that time) on either Ancients or (mostly) Napoleonics. I was never one simply to ‘go with the flow.’
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