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World War I The war to end all wars.

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  #2821  
Old 04 Feb 13, 13:28
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Originally Posted by peterhof View Post
WW1 was - in essence - a British attempt to "copenhagen" Germany.
Not really, even by proxy.
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  #2822  
Old 04 Feb 13, 13:31
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Originally Posted by Nickuru View Post
To be quite honest because they knew, although no writings at present available, that Austria wanted to take out Serbia, Russia wanted to prevent this and get to Constantinople before the Bulgarians. The French wanted to attack Germany to the point of naming one of their battleships after a German province....
This is completely off base Nick. There was no need for Russia and France to make any plans other than to warn their diplomats in Austria about the impications of an ultimatum to Serbia. We must stick to what we know and not what we think we know. On July 23rd the Austrians were still intent on crushing the Serbs and the Germans were only beginning to wake to the fact that their blank cheque to Austria may have been a miscalculation.

Your view concerning the German fleet has been set aside long ago. Resurrecting it as an issue in the Jult crisis is grasping at dry straws.
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  #2823  
Old 04 Feb 13, 14:00
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We must stick to what we know and not what we think we know.
What we "know" is the extensive Russian mobilization measures ordered and implemented during the very next few days after Poincare's departure, including the "Period Preparatory to War." Russia, as Dobrorolski has told us, was a nation gearing up for war with full-bodied Anglo-French backing.

Last edited by peterhof; 04 Feb 13 at 14:10..
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  #2824  
Old 04 Feb 13, 14:15
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Originally Posted by peterhof View Post
What we "know" is the extensive Russian mobilization measures ordered and implemented during the very next few days after Poincare's departure, including the "Period Preparatory to War." Russia, as Dobrorolski has told us, was a nation gearing up for war with full-bodied Anglo-French backing.
But you've already told us that they didn't have 'full-bodied' British backing. As for French backing, they didn't exactly hurry into the war once the Russo-German aspect had begun suggesting that the French were a little more reticent to give support than you state here.
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  #2825  
Old 04 Feb 13, 14:28
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Don't make it to dificult for him :he is stil entangled in his own contradictions.
But ,wait, not long,:he will escape...by citing something of the Holocaust man .
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  #2826  
Old 04 Feb 13, 14:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterhof View Post
WW1 was - in essence - a British attempt to "copenhagen" Germany.
That's why Britain was spending less on her army in 1914(28.3 million of £) than in 1905(29.2 million of £)

Better would be :in 1914;Germany was attempting to copenhagen every one .
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  #2827  
Old 04 Feb 13, 14:36
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Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
Don't make it to dificult for him :he is stil entangled in his own contradictions.
But ,wait, not long,:he will escape...by citing something of the Holocaust man .
Or just quietly dropping the subject and moving on to another straw in the hope that the original could be returned to when we've either forgotten or just given up.
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  #2828  
Old 04 Feb 13, 17:52
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Originally Posted by peterhof View Post
What we "know" is the extensive Russian mobilization measures ordered and implemented during the very next few days after Poincare's departure, including the "Period Preparatory to War." Russia, as Dobrorolski has told us, was a nation gearing up for war with full-bodied Anglo-French backing.
Some of us research in places where people are conditioned by that which passing for learning in high school, since it is the accepted politically correct form of education is considered doctrine. Take courage, my friend, my opinions differ from them and I researched this for years. I think people here think that you and I are out of order since they do not agree with our observations. They think thusly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvn9X...ture=fvwp&NR=1

I still insist that the all nations were responsible for WWI rather than blaming one. The British did nothing to stop it, the Italians buggered off out of their alliance with the Central Powers, which they had been intending to do since 1902. The panSlavs in Russia and Serbia lusted for the Balkans and Stanboul and to get there before the Bulgarians and were openly engaged in violence and terrorism to get it. The Rumanians wanted a part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The French were willing to assasinate any prime minister who opposed the revanchistes whose sole aim was to precipitate a war over Alsatien und Lothringen which never belonged to them in the first place. Austria's diplomacy was living in age of fantasy, and Germany's was not far behind.

There was a book "Pride and Prejudice" which described the morals of loose women in the 1800s. Perhaps this describes the morals of the era before WWI. Sweden, and Denmark as well as Spain were lucky to keep themselves out of this bloodbath.
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Last edited by Nickuru; 04 Feb 13 at 17:57.. Reason: spelling
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  #2829  
Old 04 Feb 13, 18:24
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Originally Posted by Nickuru View Post
Some of us research in places where people are conditioned by that which passing for learning in high school, since it is the accepted politically correct form of education is considered doctrine. Take courage, my friend, my opinions differ from them and I researched this for years. I think people here think that you and I are out of order since they do not agree with our observations. They think thusly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvn9X...ture=fvwp&NR=1
Nick, there's a little trick that you can use to stop people thinking you're 'out of order'. It's called 'back it up with facts'. Claiming you've researched it simply isn't enough.

But, frankly, the tone of your screed is highly offensive, especially given the depth of reading many of those you just slurred have demonstrated during the course of this thread and others like it. I don't care what you think of me because any muck thrown my way gets thrown straight back, but to make a derogatory generalised statement about people you don't know, whose background you don't know, whose education you don't know, is appalling and unworthy of you.
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  #2830  
Old 04 Feb 13, 18:27
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Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
This is completely off base Nick. There was no need for Russia and France to make any plans other than to warn their diplomats in Austria about the impications of an ultimatum to Serbia. We must stick to what we know and not what we think we know. On July 23rd the Austrians were still intent on crushing the Serbs and the Germans were only beginning to wake to the fact that their blank cheque to Austria may have been a miscalculation.

Your view concerning the German fleet has been set aside long ago. Resurrecting it as an issue in the Jult crisis is grasping at dry straws.
With all due respects, how do you explain the visit by the French General Boideffre accompanied by Maurice Paléologue to the Czar Nikolai Vtoroi on the morning of the 30th to demand a full mobilization. This was after the Czar himself had cancelled a full mobilization in the afternoon of the 29th July. One day before, the mobilization had been ordered.

The conversation proceeded as follows:

Le General Dobrorolski, chef du mobilization de l'arme russe a mis en charge la mobilization general russe le 30 juillet. Il reconnait que c'est lui qui fut appelé au point de vu technique a mettre sur le feu au foyer du monde.

This is from from Morhard, Matias 1924. This is a Frenchman criticizing his own country, one of the few with the to do so. So maybe your high school education about WWI needs a slight revision.

I realize that this traditional French keyboard C'est la merde. I will try the Swiss French keyboard or the Belgian French keyboard on next posts.
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  #2831  
Old 04 Feb 13, 18:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickuru
So maybe your high school education about WWI needs a slight revision.
Care to list your academic accolades, professor?
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  #2832  
Old 04 Feb 13, 18:35
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Care to list your academic accolades, professor?
This is going to get bloody isn't it. Man the parapets, someone has just gone over the top!
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  #2833  
Old 04 Feb 13, 19:09
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Originally Posted by Full Monty View Post
Nick, there's a little trick that you can use to stop people thinking you're 'out of order'. It's called 'back it up with facts'. Claiming you've researched it simply isn't enough.

But, frankly, the tone of your screed is highly offensive, especially given the depth of reading many of those you just slurred have demonstrated during the course of this thread and others like it. I don't care what you think of me because any muck thrown my way gets thrown straight back, but to make a derogatory generalised statement about people you don't know, whose background you don't know, whose education you don't know, is appalling and unworthy of you.
The usual suspects tend to be British and are easily identified by their conspicuous inability to distinguish between an Austro-Serb dispute and a European war. France/Poincare wanted a European war to conquer Alsace/Lorraine. Russia/Sasonov wanted "European complications" in order to secure Constantinople and the Straits. Great Britain/Grey wanted a European war in order to take Germany down a few notches.

By stark contrast, Austria wanted to settle accounts with Serbia for very understandable reasons and much of the world was sympathetic. Germany was obliged to support Austria, not only by formal treaty but by the precedent of 1909.

When things became tense, Germany leaned hard on Austria, while France stepped-up her incitement of Russia, and Great Britain wrote the 'blank cheque' described in the opening post of this thread.

Compare the Triple Alliance to the Triple Entente. If you cannot appreciate the difference, Nickuru's description (above) describes you!
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  #2834  
Old 04 Feb 13, 19:12
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With all due respects, how do you explain the visit by the French General Boideffre accompanied by Maurice Paléologue to the Czar Nikolai Vtoroi on the morning of the 30th to demand a full mobilization.
I've tried to place Boisdeffre in Russia in late July 1914 without success. But it's not that important.

J.V. Keiger - 'France and the Origins of the First World War' states

[Sazonov] did stress, however, that in Russia mobilisation was far from being the same as war, for the Russian army could stand at ease for weeks without crossing the frontier. This was perfectly true. The agreed statement made by Russia and Piañëe in 1892 during negotiations for the military convention, immortalised in General Boisdeffre’s words to the Tsar that ‘mobilisation is the declaration of war’, was by November 1912 obsolete. On 21 November the Russian General Staff revoked orders stating that the mobilisation began hostilities and the Tsar expressly confirmed that principle on the 26th. (p.158)
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Old 04 Feb 13, 19:19
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Originally Posted by peterhof View Post
The usual suspects tend to be British and are easily identified by their conspicuous inability to distinguish between an Austro-Serb dispute and a European war. France/Poincare wanted a European war to conquer Alsace/Lorraine. Russia/Sasonov wanted "European complications" in order to secure Constantinople and the Straits. Great Britain/Grey wanted a European war in order to take Germany down a few notches.
Here we go.
Quote:
Compare the Triple Alliance to the Triple Entente.
We did that before Christmas, remember?

Quote:
If you cannot appreciate the difference, Nickuru's description (above) describes you!
I'm sure Nick can clarify who he was referring to in his own way. But it's not important. I didn't buy my Masters Degree, I earned it. So I can say that the Triple Alliance is most unlike the Triple Entente (disputes over the nomenclature notwithstanding) although each had two parties that were bound in a military alliance and a 'floater' that wasn't prepared to commit.
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