Panetta - Women Ok'd for Combat/Front Line Units - Page 18 - Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History

***Salinator*** · #**256** 04 Feb 13, 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by G David Bock

I'll agree with many here that this will only work (part way) if the physical standards and requirements for women are raised to the level of the males. Few 130 pound gals are able to lift or drag a wounded 200 pound male out of a fire zone and into cover.

I agree in general with what you are saying, but at the same time, how many 130 pound dudes are able to lift or drag a wounded 200 pound male out of the same situation?

lcm1 · #**257** 04 Feb 13, 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pruitt

There are a rare few officers in the US Army that have served at the grunt level. I knew one well at McNeese. He made it up to E-5 or so before getting out to go to college. He completed ROTC there and he got a REGULAR Infantry Commission, not a Reserve. The state of Louisiana provides free tuition for National Guardsmen at state colleges. Quite a few go for ROTC while in school. Two of my Uncles were commissioned from McNeese ROTC. One ended up at Captain after serving for years.

Some officers have been promoted from senior enlisted men and some rare ones got Combat promotions. You can apply for OCS, but I don't know how many are taken.

Second Lieutenants normally come from college or military academy. Some like the Citadel and Norwich get in as well. There is a reason these guys should NOT be given live ammunition!

Pruitt

Hi Pru: I have heard of combat commisions but have always been under the impression that they were temporary,I could be wrong though. Or it could be differant in the USA.? lcm1

Captain General · #**258** 04 Feb 13, 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pruitt

There are a rare few officers in the US Army that have served at the grunt level. I knew one well at McNeese. He made it up to E-5 or so before getting out to go to college. He completed ROTC there and he got a REGULAR Infantry Commission, not a Reserve. The state of Louisiana provides free tuition for National Guardsmen at state colleges. Quite a few go for ROTC while in school. Two of my Uncles were commissioned from McNeese ROTC. One ended up at Captain after serving for years.

Some officers have been promoted from senior enlisted men and some rare ones got Combat promotions. You can apply for OCS, but I don't know how many are taken.

Second Lieutenants normally come from college or military academy. Some like the Citadel and Norwich get in as well. There is a reason these guys should NOT be given live ammunition!

Pruitt

The last time the Army issued a battlefield commission was during the Korean War.

The USMC issued 62 battlefield commissions during Vietnam. The Army issued zero.

None have been issued by any service since then.

Pruitt · #**259** 04 Feb 13, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by lcm1

Hi Pru: I have heard of combat commisions but have always been under the impression that they were temporary,I could be wrong though. Or it could be differant in the USA.? lcm1

They can give out Reserve Officer commissions. These are "temporary" only in they can make you go back to civilian life. Once you make officer, you are one for life, unless they take it away. You have to apply to go active. I remember a program where they offered National Guard and Reserve Captains a chance to go to Europe on active duty.

They used to refuse to allow officers that got passed over a second time for promotion to stay active. One option they had was to re-enlist as an E-3 Enlisted Man. This way the "officer" could get his twenty years of active service in and retire. Retirement benefits were based on highest active duty rank earned. This was more popular before , after WWII and the Korean War. I think they closed this loophole in the 80's.

While the Army did not make battlefield commissions in Vietnam, they could send the deserving Enlisted Man to OCS. The course lasted 90 days, hence the title "90 Day Wonder".

Pruitt

Naffenea · #**260** 04 Feb 13, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pruitt

They can give out Reserve Officer commissions. These are "temporary" only in they can make you go back to civilian life. Once you make officer, you are one for life, unless they take it away. You have to apply to go active. I remember a program where they offered National Guard and Reserve Captains a chance to go to Europe on active duty.

They used to refuse to allow officers that got passed over a second time for promotion to stay active. One option they had was to re-enlist as an E-3 Enlisted Man. This way the "officer" could get his twenty years of active service in and retire. Retirement benefits were based on highest active duty rank earned. This was more popular before , after WWII and the Korean War. I think they closed this loophole in the 80's.

While the Army did not make battlefield commissions in Vietnam, they could send the deserving Enlisted Man to OCS. The course lasted 90 days, hence the title "90 Day Wonder".

Pruitt

You can also apply for a direct commission. In my old unit we had an E7 put in her packet and get picked up.

Pruitt · #**261** 04 Feb 13, 15:56

What MOS were you in and what branch did she get a commission in, if you can remember.

Pruitt

lcm1 · #**262** 04 Feb 13, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pruitt

They can give out Reserve Officer commissions. These are "temporary" only in they can make you go back to civilian life. Once you make officer, you are one for life, unless they take it away. You have to apply to go active. I remember a program where they offered National Guard and Reserve Captains a chance to go to Europe on active duty.

They used to refuse to allow officers that got passed over a second time for promotion to stay active. One option they had was to re-enlist as an E-3 Enlisted Man. This way the "officer" could get his twenty years of active service in and retire. Retirement benefits were based on highest active duty rank earned. This was more popular before , after WWII and the Korean War. I think they closed this loophole in the 80's.

While the Army did not make battlefield commissions in Vietnam, they could send the deserving Enlisted Man to OCS. The course lasted 90 days, hence the title "90 Day Wonder".

Pruitt

Thank you Pru:,

lcm1

Hypaspist · #**263** 04 Feb 13, 23:52

Have we got to the part where we all make our point with photos yet?

photo uploader

Naffenea · #**264** 05 Feb 13, 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pruitt

What MOS were you in and what branch did she get a commission in, if you can remember.

Pruitt

She was 42A, commissioned AG as a 42B. I've been told to finish my degree and put in my packet to commission as a 25A.

Massena · #**265** 05 Feb 13, 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salinator

I agree in general with what you are saying, but at the same time, how many 130 pound dudes are able to lift or drag a wounded 200 pound male out of the same situation?

I dunno-but I've seen some very able and strong 'small' Marines carrying at least 60 pounds of gear on a 10-15 mile hike outmarch bigger Marines and all of the females fall out, 130lbs or not.

I've also seen the 'bad' runners on a hike carrying the same amount of equipment outhike the unit's marathon runners...

Sincerely,
M

Captain General · #**266** 05 Feb 13, 09:40

A bit of satirical humor from the Duffle Blog:

http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/02/pa...general-corps/

Naffenea · #**267** 05 Feb 13, 16:06

Haha, my last unit was AG and female dominated.

lcm1 · #**268** 06 Feb 13, 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massena

I dunno-but I've seen some very able and strong 'small' Marines carrying at least 60 pounds of gear on a 10-15 mile hike outmarch bigger Marines and all of the females fall out, 130lbs or not.

I've also seen the 'bad' runners on a hike carrying the same amount of equipment outhike the unit's marathon runners...

Sincerely,
M

I was described as long and lean and outstripped many of the big guys.lcm1

Massena · #**269** 06 Feb 13, 10:15

Long and lean is good. I'm tall and stocky and played football (US not soccer).

I've also found that many of the physical requirements, such as conditioning hikes, etc., were 'mind over matter' as they say. They hurt, but they were supposed to...

Sincerely,
M

TacCovert4 · #**270** 06 Feb 13, 20:02

It takes a bit of both types. Lean and Wiry do some jobs better, bulky and powerful do others better.

Problem is what Massena brought up last.....mind over matter. In my time in the Corps, I met a grand total of 1 female that could excel by male standards. She was a reservist. Her day job....Fireman. She could do 20 true pull-ups, and had a very respectable run time. The majority of the rest that I met on both sides of the house could hack their standards to some degree, but couldn't hack the male standards. Very often they would complain if they were made to do something where they simply had to keep up with the males.