Its a Panthiger!

[panther3485]

Originally Posted by LRB

"My comment with the Panzer IV kits Panther, was, how many of those kits are using sprues that are new, and how many are sprues that have been in use since the first Panzer IV kit was made."

Since the very first PzKpfw IV kits from Dragon? Their old ones? All the sprues are new. But if you take it from the first of the 'new generation' Dragon Panzer 4's - which dates back to late 2005 - then it's a mixed bag depending on which of their 'newer' Panzer 4's you look at.

Originally Posted by LRB

"Wheels for instance, I can't picture them having changed much.

Critical components, major parts, I am wondering, how much is actually 'new' mold?"

The roadwheels and suspension on the later (post 2005) Dragon PzKpfw IVs are all way better than any of their older kits, as well as most older kits from other manufacturers. Between Tristar and Dragon, a truly new standard was set around that time. Indeed IIRC, Tristar had their first one on sale just a bit before Dragon did; but Dragon took it a little further and arguably perhaps, just a tad better in other areas and with a larger range of Panzer IV variants.

Interesting thing is, Dragon responded to user feedback that in some places a number of their newer kits were over-engineered and had too many parts. We thus have today, two varitions of the way the running gear is rendered on their PzKpfw IVs; the first with separate tires for all the roadwheels and fully articulated suspension (same as the Tristar Panzer 4s); the second with moulded-on tires and slightly simplified suspension.

Originally Posted by LRB

"I suppose I could do the research and observe the detail transitions of the vehicle through the different marks. Sometimes the differences are so insignificant that the kit is essentially just the same kit, and a new component added to the mix."

Yes, in some cases the physical differences between one version, and another that was chronologically very close to it in the development of the Panzer 4, are minimal and it's almost the same kit in terms of the parts. At the end of the day, I guess it depends on what precise variant the modeller wants; or if they want to model a number of different ones, which some like to do. Horses for courses I suppose.

Originally Posted by LRB

"I picked up the Dragon 72nd armour pro Japanese Type 95 Ha-Go light tank recently in my case.

I am not sure if it is just locally, but, the local store has a stash of Dragon 35th scale armour, all fairly nice kits too, all of the usual fare, some German armour some US half tracks, the atypical Shermans. It was dropped on the store as auto shipped items (amazing behaviour actually, I'd have sent it all back if it was my store). The kits are collecting dust though. The prices are all ok, but, no one ordered them, and most of the stores high volume guys like myself, we all special order what we want.
I for one have no interest in the kits. 50% off and they'd still be there. I don't do 35th scale any more unless the kit is particularly rare. My last purchase was a PzIV L70 command limited edition. I got it because I was told to pick out a birthday gift. I'd rather it was a 48th scale Tamiya, but they have not made that vehicle yet. Nor sadly a Brummbar either.
Lots if nice 35th sclae Brummbars from Dragon there though.

I have an old Tamiya 35th scale Brummbar slumming around here trying to not get thrown out (and not doing so well, as the old tracks on it died).

I guess model kits are produced in different scales to suit the budgets, building preferences and storage space of different modellers. I like 1/35 for armour, 1/48 for planes and 1/350 for warships but that's just me. I know plenty of modellers who prefer other scales for reasons that are just as valid as mine.

[flash]

Originally Posted by LRB

First question, was the Pathtiger the work of a bored model maker?

Second question, does anyone really care how many times Dragon pretends they can release a German tank and issue new decals and paint scheme and call it a new kit?

They likely have made 3 Panzer IV kits and the rest is all just new sets of decals.

Third question, how many here would rather buy a new kit, an actual new kit, over some idiotic never saw the light of day hypothetical vehicle?

I'm tired of companies like Dragon thinking I want to build &%#@$* German tanks ever time I want a model.

The market is wanting a lot of kits out there, and they are wanting a lot of vehicles that actually DID see a lot of service.

Personally I'd like to see a lot more 48th scale items, so they can be combined with my aircraft. Or maybe it's time, the aircraft kit makers realized we might like some 35th scale aircraft kits that didn't force a lot of mega interior details to accompany our 35th scale vehicles.

The Allies used a lot more than just Shermans and T-34s and KV tanks damn it.

The market would not mind a lot more Allied half track items, and German half tracked items. There is room for quite a few more British and Japanese armour items too.

I'm not interested in settling for eBay kits of long out of print items not even half as good as today's tooling permits.

Been browsing my Airfix catalogue here too. I built most of the 72nd realm in the 70s and early 80s. The kits were ok, but they were inexpensive too. They are not on par with Dragon Armour pro, but, Dragon Armour pro is also not the most comprehensive selection either.

For what it's worth I agree.
Where are all the 1:35th Cromwells,Comets,.Valentines and Challengers?
I dont wanna see another hypothetical vehicle,I could model science fiction to get that!

[razorboy]

Agreed, there are way too many "Drawing Board" AFVs on the market. Let's see some of the lesser known REAL vehicles.

[Mountain Man]

Originally Posted by Hetzer 15

Photo on the net, what a hodgepodge...the best of both world it would seem.

88mm cannon
Turret looks real roomy too!

No image - no link.

[panther3485]

Originally Posted by flash

For what it's worth I agree.
Where are all the 1:35th Cromwells,Comets,.Valentines and Challengers?
I dont wanna see another hypothetical vehicle,I could model science fiction to get that!

IIRC and just off the top of my head:

Tamiya do a Cromwell and Centaur; Bronco do a very nice Comet. At least three different manufacturers offer variants of the Valentine. The only one you mentioned that I can't recall a reasonable 1/35 kit of is the Challenger; unless of course you want the MBT of the same name; in which case, both Challenger 1 and 2 are readily available.

Right in front of me is Bronco's 1/35 A13 Mk.I Cruiser Mk.III; another pretty good kit. I also have, either built or in boxes, early and late versions of the Crusader as well as a nicely re-vamped Tamiya Matlida II, in addition to a Churchill Mk. VII. Other marks of Churchill are beginning to be quite well covered too.

All that said, coverage of British armour subjects is still not as good as for German, where just about every variant of every tank built during WW2, including some that saw bugger all service, seems to be available. So your basic point is valid. But this brings us back to what was said before: Kit manufacturers produce what they think they will be able to sell in sufficient volume to get a good return on their investment.

[triggerjockey]

Originally Posted by panther3485

IIRC and just off the top of my head:

Tamiya do a Cromwell and Centaur; Bronco do a very nice Comet. At least three different manufacturers offer variants of the Valentine. The only one you mentioned that I can't recall a reasonable 1/35 kit of is the Challenger; unless of course you want the MBT of the same name; in which case, both Challenger 1 and 2 are readily available.

Right in front of me is Bronco's 1/35 A13 Mk.I Cruiser Mk.III; another pretty good kit. I also have, either built or in boxes, early and late versions of the Crusader as well as a nicely re-vamped Tamiya Matlida II, in addition to a Churchill Mk. VII. Other marks of Churchill are beginning to be quite well covered too.

All that said, coverage of British armour subjects is still not as good as for German, where just about every variant of every tank built during WW2, including some that saw bugger all service, seems to be available. So your basic point is valid. But this brings us back to what was said before: Kit manufacturers produce what they think they will be able to sell in sufficient volume to get a good return on their investment.

Bronco's Comet is an awesome kit. Built it and loved it. I would love to see Bronco take a stab at the Challenger. That would be an awesome kit to get a hold of.

[panther3485]

Originally Posted by triggerjockey

Bronco's Comet is an awesome kit. Built it and loved it. I would love to see Bronco take a stab at the Challenger. That would be an awesome kit to get a hold of.

Bronco have been turning out some really outstanding stuff, especially lately. They now offer, for example, two slightly different versions of the SU-152 and according to the reviews I've read, they are better than the Trumpeter SU-152 which itself, while flawed, is still not too bad. Within the last year or so, I have also seen two slightly different renditions of the M24 Chaffee from Bronco which have been highly praised. A new release coming very soon (if not already out) is their PzKpfw 35(t). A lot of good kits of the 38(t) are out there now but the 35(t) has not been so well covered. CMK (a Czech company, appropriately enough) did release a fair quality 35(t) some years ago and it's not bad but if the new Bronco kit is up to their current standard it will be a terrific model.

What I really like about Bronco is that they seem willing to tackle unusual subjects that we rarely if ever see in mainstream 1/35 injection moulded kits. Their Hungarian Zrinyi assault gun/tank destroyer would be a classic example. Another is their British version of the M22 Locust airborne tank. These are both on their new release list. It just gets better and better for 1/35 armour modellers.

[LRB]

I have built many a Brit tank that wasn't a Sherman variant. But, it always seems they are johnny come lately kits at the tail end of line.

It's a rare treat to get them when the line is new.

[triggerjockey]

Originally Posted by panther3485

Bronco have been turning out some really outstanding stuff, especially lately. They now offer, for example, two slightly different versions of the SU-152 and according to the reviews I've read, they are better than the Trumpeter SU-152 which itself, while flawed, is still not too bad. Within the last year or so, I have also seen two slightly different renditions of the M24 Chaffee from Bronco which have been highly praised. A new release coming very soon (if not already out) is their PzKpfw 35(t). A lot of good kits of the 38(t) are out there now but the 35(t) has not been so well covered. CMK (a Czech company, appropriately enough) did release a fair quality 35(t) some years ago and it's not bad but if the new Bronco kit is up to their current standard it will be a terrific model.

What I really like about Bronco is that they seem willing to tackle unusual subjects that we rarely if ever see in mainstream 1/35 injection moulded kits. Their Hungarian Zrinyi assault gun/tank destroyer would be a classic example. Another is their British version of the M22 Locust airborne tank. These are both on their new release list. It just gets better and better for 1/35 armour modellers.

Speaking of 38(t)s, I just recently picked up a Trumpeter offering of it. You are right though, the 35(t) has a hard time seeing the light of day, even though they were right there in the mix beside the 38(t).

[Dane_Bramage]

Paul has that Meng A-39 Tortoise which is brand new tool and British. Paul wants to sell or trade it.

[panther3485]

Originally Posted by Dane_Bramage

Paul has that Meng A-39 Tortoise which is brand new tool and British. Paul wants to sell or trade it.

Too bad the thing never saw any action; otherwise I'd consider buying one myself.

[flash]

Originally Posted by panther3485

IIRC and just off the top of my head:

Tamiya do a Cromwell and Centaur; Bronco do a very nice Comet. At least three different manufacturers offer variants of the Valentine. The only one you mentioned that I can't recall a reasonable 1/35 kit of is the Challenger; unless of course you want the MBT of the same name; in which case, both Challenger 1 and 2 are readily available.

Right in front of me is Bronco's 1/35 A13 Mk.I Cruiser Mk.III; another pretty good kit. I also have, either built or in boxes, early and late versions of the Crusader as well as a nicely re-vamped Tamiya Matlida II, in addition to a Churchill Mk. VII. Other marks of Churchill are beginning to be quite well covered too.

All that said, coverage of British armour subjects is still not as good as for German, where just about every variant of every tank built during WW2, including some that saw bugger all service, seems to be available. So your basic point is valid. But this brings us back to what was said before: Kit manufacturers produce what they think they will be able to sell in sufficient volume to get a good return on their investment.

Hmm,well,erm Ok then.That's me told
But are there any more?
Or is that it?

[panther3485]

Originally Posted by flash

Hmm,well,erm Ok then.That's me told
But are there any more?
Or is that it?

Those were the ones that came 'off the top of my head' so to speak. If I did a thorough search I reckon I could find a few more.

In a small way, there's been something of a 'renaissance' in more recent years with newer or lesser-known manufacturers coming to the fore in the 1/35 armour market. As with Bronco, we are seeing some of them producing kits of lesser known subjects, or subjects that have barely been covered before.

Some of the better known or longer established manufacturers, such as Tamiya and Italeri, have lifted their game and produced not only some new kits, but good re-vamps of older ones. For example, Italeri's original Crusader kit was a III and if you wanted to model a Crusader I from that kit, you reached into your wallet to buy a Verlinden resin conversion set. A few years after I purchased the Verlinden item for precisely that purpose, Italeri released a Crusader I.
I mentioned the Crusader already of course but referring back to the Bronco A13 Mk.I Cruiser Mk.III. I recall that they released another early WW2 British Cruiser - I think it may have been Cruiser Mk.IV or IVA. Unfortunately for me, that one never appeared at my hobby shop for some reason so I'll probably end up ordering it on the Internet.

Don't know if you've seen it around but Tamiya have done a re-vamp of their old Matilda II kit and the new one is excellent!

Of course, this is discussing British armour but for those who like Italian or Japanese stuff, there are a few good Gems to be found. Tamiya have re-vamped their old M-13/40 and the new kit, which includes a turned aluminium gun barrel, is outstanding. I purchased that, as well as a Japanese light amphibious tank from Dragon not long afterwards. Italeri have a beautiful L6/40 Light Tank kit, which is a tad expensive but must inevitably come into my collection!

Announced among Dragon's new releases coming soon is that Japanese Type 95 Ha-Go light tank I think I mentioned already. I believe they did a limited release of this earlier under their Cyberhobby label and I'll certainly be grabbing myself one of those as soon as it appears, along with Bronco's German Pzkpfw 35(t) and Soviet SU-152.

The playing field is getting richer each year, despite the fact that some folks have been trying to tell me, for the last couple or so decades, that modelling is a dying hobby. It may be so among the youngsters but hobby shops will still be selling kits as long as old farts like me want to buy them.

[flash]

Originally Posted by panther3485

Those were the ones that came 'off the top of my head' so to speak. If I did a thorough search I reckon I could find a few more.

In a small way, there's been something of a 'renaissance' in more recent years with newer or lesser-known manufacturers coming to the fore in the 1/35 armour market. As with Bronco, we are seeing some of them producing kits of lesser known subjects, or subjects that have barely been covered before.

Some of the better known or longer established manufacturers, such as Tamiya and Italeri, have lifted their game and produced not only some new kits, but good re-vamps of older ones. For example, Italeri's original Crusader kit was a III and if you wanted to model a Crusader I from that kit, you reached into your wallet to buy a Verlinden resin conversion set. A few years after I purchased the Verlinden item for precisely that purpose, Italeri released a Crusader I.
I mentioned the Crusader already of course but referring back to the Bronco A13 Mk.I Cruiser Mk.III. I recall that they released another early WW2 British Cruiser - I think it may have been Cruiser Mk.IV or IVA. Unfortunately for me, that one never appeared at my hobby shop for some reason so I'll probably end up ordering it on the Internet.

Don't know if you've seen it around but Tamiya have done a re-vamp of their old Matilda II kit and the new one is excellent!

Of course, this is discussing British armour but for those who like Italian or Japanese stuff, there are a few good Gems to be found. Tamiya have re-vamped their old M-13/40 and the new kit, which includes a turned aluminium gun barrel, is outstanding. I purchased that, as well as a Japanese light amphibious tank from Dragon not long afterwards. Italeri have a beautiful L6/40 Light Tank kit, which is a tad expensive but must inevitably come into my collection!

Announced among Dragon's new releases coming soon is that Japanese Type 95 Ha-Go light tank I think I mentioned already. I believe they did a limited release of this earlier under their Cyberhobby label and I'll certainly be grabbing myself one of those as soon as it appears, along with Bronco's German Pzkpfw 35(t) and Soviet SU-152.

The playing field is getting richer each year, despite the fact that some folks have been trying to tell me, for the last couple or so decades, that modelling is a dying hobby. It may be so among the youngsters but hobby shops will still be selling kits as long as old farts like me want to buy them.

Viva le modelleur!
I do occasionally dip my toe into the modelling world,last build was the Dragon "Easy 8" but I'm afraid that Tamiya is off my list due to ridiculous pricing.How does Bronco and Trumpeter pricing compare?

[panther3485]

Originally Posted by flash

Viva le modelleur!
I do occasionally dip my toe into the modelling world,last build was the Dragon "Easy 8" but I'm afraid that Tamiya is off my list due to ridiculous pricing.How does Bronco and Trumpeter pricing compare?

I'm sure pricing must vary quite a bit from one country to the next; and maybe somewhat even within a country depending on where you are and who you buy from. That said, these are some of my observations buying from hobby shops in Western Australia:

For 1/35 armour kits, Tamiya generally do tend to be more expensive than most of the others but it can vary. One of the worst recent examples was their new Jagdtiger kit for over A$100.00 (IIRC it was actually A$112.00 or 115.00) which at the time was damned near double the cost of the equivalent Dragon kit. Dragon had re-vamped their Jagdtiger at least 2 or 3 times and I got one of the later improved editions with the turned aluminium gun barrel and other goodies. I had the opportunity to compare it with the new Tamiya kit and could not justify the grossly over-inflated price of the Japanese product; so I believe I made the right choice. On the other hand, I've seen a number of newer Tamiya tank kits that were much more reasonably priced, albeit usually still a bit more than most other brands.

The Bronco kits I've seen, and those I've bought tend to fall around the middle of the price range, being generally similar in cost to the better Dragon kits, or a little bit cheaper.

From the Trumpeter kits I've purchased and seen on my hobby shop shelves, most of these seem to be cheaper than either Dragon or even Bronco, putting this brand closer to the lower end of the price range. What is interesting here is that many of their later kits are pretty darn good; perhaps not quite with the latest Dragon offerings but close, IMO.

There are a couple more brands right at the bottom of the price range which I must admit I haven't tried yet, because their very cheapness has made me a bit suspicious but then, I remember that's the way Trumpeter started out so it's a good idea to keep an eye on the newcomers; they will tend to get better if they survive commercially.

For me, most of my best purchases for combination of quality and price over the last decade, have fallen between A$40.00 and A$60.00, with A$70.00 being the 'ouch' line for me. It has to be something pretty darn special, or something I want a heck of a lot, to spend more than that.