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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East

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The Middle East Asia Minor, the Arab Mahgreb, and the Persian Gulf to include tensions between Israel and its Arab neighbors, Terrorist organizations and Iran.

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  #31  
Old 01 Feb 13, 19:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
You are supporting my point. The missiles they fire are systems they can hide in basements.

You won't do that with a full-size AFV.
Isn't southern Lebanon mountainous? They can be hidden in tunnels and deployed when necessary if so.
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  #32  
Old 02 Feb 13, 11:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion40 View Post
I find the possibility of Russians working in a Syrian nuclear facility, guarded by Iranian Revolutionary Guardsmen, to be deeply disturbing.

One the one hand it seems to be ridiculous, in a James bond super-villain kind of way. But the possible reality of it is deeply disturbing, as I never really considered that Iranian shenanigans could actually draw the West into a general war before. Now I can totally see it. Clearly their intent and capacity to manipulate, and benefit from international strife is brazen and insatiable.
Yes, how dare the Iranians have their men killed in Israeli surprise bombings made without warning in Syria!

Look, you want to support Israel, then by all means support Israel. They certainly have a case here. But don't come off about 'drawing' the West into a general war or other such retoric. This is a Mk1 typical convoluted situation, that came about without anybody asking for it, that is causing complications on all sides, that might snowball.
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  #33  
Old 02 Feb 13, 11:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yono View Post
The Russians are making a lot of noise about it, but they always do anyways.
That may be true, but I'm going to point something out to you. Russia is the one country in this mess that has the capacity, with its long range conventional bomber forces, to send mass cruise missile strikes into Israel, and really do serious damage to Israeli infastructure.

Israel should therefore think long and hard before making more strikes which kill Russian civilians in Syria. I'm not saying Russia would do more than bitch, I'm saying Russia can do more than bitch, if it chooses

And that sets it apart from Syria and Iran.

I assume that Israel actually warned Russia prior to attacking, the danger of provocation and engaging Russian prestige otherwise, being so great.
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  #34  
Old 02 Feb 13, 13:04
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Accordign to the BBC

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCoyote View Post
Israeli version > Weapons convoy. Makes sense as this posses a direct threat to Israeli security.

Syrian version > Scientific research facility. Makes sense if believe the Zionist/baby killer/blah blah blah.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21269766

Two people died, five were injured. No reports of 'Russians'.
Faux Snooze Network duped us again...
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  #35  
Old 02 Feb 13, 21:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn239 View Post
That may be true, but I'm going to point something out to you. Russia is the one country in this mess that has the capacity, with its long range conventional bomber forces, to send mass cruise missile strikes into Israel, and really do serious damage to Israeli infastructure.
.
That is a knife that cuts both ways.
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  #36  
Old 03 Feb 13, 07:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn239 View Post
That may be true, but I'm going to point something out to you. Russia is the one country in this mess that has the capacity, with its long range conventional bomber forces, to send mass cruise missile strikes into Israel, and really do serious damage to Israeli infastructure.

Israel should therefore think long and hard before making more strikes which kill Russian civilians in Syria. I'm not saying Russia would do more than bitch, I'm saying Russia can do more than bitch, if it chooses

And that sets it apart from Syria and Iran.

I assume that Israel actually warned Russia prior to attacking, the danger of provocation and engaging Russian prestige otherwise, being so great.
You say it as if Israel can't give what it takes
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  #37  
Old 03 Feb 13, 08:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbryan View Post
That is a knife that cuts both ways.
That is true. And I highly doubt the Russians would want to try it anyway. They're working hard to rebuild their air force, why would they want to lose it over Israel?
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  #38  
Old 03 Feb 13, 08:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn239 View Post
Yes, how dare the Iranians have their men killed in Israeli surprise bombings made without warning in Syria!


If I were an Iranian on a convoy of weapons on their way to Hezbollah, I would certainly have my eyes to the sky.............
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  #39  
Old 04 Feb 13, 00:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
If I were an Iranian on a convoy of weapons on their way to Hezbollah, I would certainly have my eyes to the sky.............
Hell, I'd be sitting on the hood of the car, scanning the skies both in front and in back..
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  #40  
Old 04 Feb 13, 13:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbryan View Post
That is a knife that cuts both ways.
I wouldn't be writing cheques for anyone. Israel and Russia both have a strong incentive to prevent misunderstandings that could create complications. The Israelis have demonstrated displeasure at SA-17 missiles being sent to Lebanon. Perhaps the Russians can work on that behind the scenes. Israel has no interest - none - in killing Russians in Syria. Anyone looking at that scenario with indifference or relish is no friend of Israel's.
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  #41  
Old 04 Feb 13, 13:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
That is true. And I highly doubt the Russians would want to try it anyway. They're working hard to rebuild their air force, why would they want to lose it over Israel?
I see no chance of an incident. But I am telling this forum that it is dangerous and inaccurate to model Russia as helpless as Syria. Russia ain't Syria, and never lose sight of that fact.

The Israelis were alarmed enough at the transfer of SA-17 missiles to Lebanan to make an attack to prevent it. The IAF described it as a 'game changer', a deadly threat to IAF air supremacy. SA-17 is 15 years old - we're talking a system from the late 1990's. So, what you are saying is that 1998 Russian SAM technology is so deadly that Israel needed to attack inside Syria to prevent its spread, but at the same time that 2013 Russian SAM (and AF) technology is not a serious threat to Israel.

You're telling me Russian tech has gone backwards in the suceeding 15 years? Because I'm pretty sure that there is a case to be made that the new SA-400 could rip the IAF apart, and that is independent of Russian fighters and interceptors.

Neither side wants any part to complications. Hence, both will work behind the scenes to try and ensure there will be none.
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  #42  
Old 05 Feb 13, 04:45
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From this video I say it was a ground attack.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21312995

Whats your bda?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomb_damage_assessment
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  #43  
Old 05 Feb 13, 07:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn239 View Post
The Israelis were alarmed enough at the transfer of SA-17 missiles to Lebanan to make an attack to prevent it. The IAF described it as a 'game changer', a deadly threat to IAF air supremacy. SA-17 is 15 years old - we're talking a system from the late 1990's. So, what you are saying is that 1998 Russian SAM technology is so deadly that Israel needed to attack inside Syria to prevent its spread, but at the same time that 2013 Russian SAM (and AF) technology is not a serious threat to Israel.
SA-17's are game changers when in the hands of Hezbollah or Hamas. There's a major difference. They were in the hands of Syria for quite a while now and no one in the IDF even broke a sweat over it.
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  #44  
Old 05 Feb 13, 08:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn239 View Post
I see no chance of an incident. But I am telling this forum that it is dangerous and inaccurate to model Russia as helpless as Syria. Russia ain't Syria, and never lose sight of that fact.

Of course Russia isn't helpless. But they don't have the force projection to threaten Israel, and their LR bomber fleet would be decimated. At this time, Russia is geared towards conflicts in their own back yard.

The SA-17 is still a threat, especially if it's use were a surprise.

The real teeth and claws of Russia at this point in time is is nukes. But as I pointed out, they are working hard to change that.

ANd in the "what if" arena, if Russia were to launch a large bombing raid against Israel, we might just find out how deadly the F-22 really is.

[/QUOTE]
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  #45  
Old 05 Feb 13, 08:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
Of course Russia isn't helpless. But they don't have the force projection to threaten Israel, and their LR bomber fleet would be decimated. At this time, Russia is geared towards conflicts in their own back yard.

The SA-17 is still a threat, especially if it's use were a surprise.

The real teeth and claws of Russia at this point in time is is nukes. But as I pointed out, they are working hard to change that.

ANd in the "what if" arena, if Russia were to launch a large bombing raid against Israel, we might just find out how deadly the F-22 really is.
Russia wont go to war to support Syria. Putin's a buggar but he's also probably the least dumb of all the world's main leaders...
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