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  #61  
Old 21 Jan 13, 04:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queensman View Post
Dont you mean when the paras returned fire at the terrorist trying to use thd crowds for cover.
One of my best mates died from this tactict in 1983 and i had to try and keep him alive, not easy with kids stoning you and scum behind them shooting at you.

I will stop before i get onto the outrage bus

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I base my views on the findings of a British government enquiry which ran for over a decade. To be honest before the findings of the Saville Enquiry I was of the opinion that the Para’s were probably fired upon first. It is now clear that this did not happen. It was foolish in the extreme to put a bunch of young soldiers who had no training or experience in policing in that situation. The potential for disaster was always there. I wonder how most British people would have felt at the time if the British Army had killed 11 people in London rather than Londonderry?

For the record I despise the IRA and all their derivative groups. The news of a police officer or soldier being killed by them always filled me with sadness. The news of an IRA member being killed never bothered me at all (I try not to take joy in the death of another person, otherwise I’d be happy about it).

There was plenty of things done in Northern Ireland in 30 years of a very dirty war that don’t cover the British army with glory and Bloody Sunday was probably the worst of them but that doesn’t mean that the vast majority of men who served there weren’t good people who just wanted to get home alive.

Republicans tend to forget that the army was first deployed to protect Catholics from Loyalist murder gangs who roamed with impunity because the RUC and the local protestant militia did nothing to stop them and often assisted them.

By the way, I’m sorry for your loss and for everyone who was murdered there over those 30 years.
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  #62  
Old 21 Jan 13, 04:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfe Tone View Post
So the British Flag should be allowed to fly but not the Irish one?

The city is changing - many Unionists seem to have a problem with that
The city is changing - many Unionists seem to have a problem with that & its a big problem for them as you said fly both or d`ont fly any!!!!!!
IT
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  #63  
Old 21 Jan 13, 07:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishtiger View Post
The city is changing - many Unionists seem to have a problem with that & its a big problem for them as you said fly both or d`ont fly any!!!!!!
IT
Not flying the Union flag is one thing. Flying the Irish tricolour is quite another. Northern Ireland is part of the UK. That’s been the case since 1922 and is legally accepted by the government and constitution of Ireland. Therefore why on earth would the tricolour be flown over Belfast city hall?
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  #64  
Old 21 Jan 13, 10:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.D. Morel View Post
Not flying the Union flag is one thing. Flying the Irish tricolour is quite another. Northern Ireland is part of the UK. That’s been the case since 1922 and is legally accepted by the government and constitution of Ireland. Therefore why on earth would the tricolour be flown over Belfast city hall?
Because there's quite a few places in the city that flies the flag.
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  #65  
Old 21 Jan 13, 14:46
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At some point there will almost certainly be both flags flying in the six counties. Right now I would have to ask of the chaos and violence is really worth it at this stage.
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  #66  
Old 21 Jan 13, 20:51
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From what my friend in PSNI is saying, its worse than what we have all seen. The way that it was voted on not to fly the flag is questionable too, the people were not represented and it went in via the rear.
( Bit painful... sorry couldn't help myself there)

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  #67  
Old 21 Jan 13, 23:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karri View Post
Because there's quite a few places in the city that flies the flag.
What flag!....Are they the official flag of the UK? Is the tricolour the official flag of the UK?

I live in the British City of St Albans. lI see these flags....

St Albans saltire.


The Cross of St. George.


The Union Flag.


And even the Gay Pride Flag.


....flying from the Town-hall, but the last thing I would expect to see is any foreign rag fluttering on one of my countries government buildings unless it was a rare one-off event.

I wonder how the Americans would feel at seeing the Mexican flag flying from their town-halls or the French 'drapeau tricolore' on the odd Rathäuser

Paul

Last edited by Dibble201Bty; 21 Jan 13 at 23:58..
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  #68  
Old 22 Jan 13, 03:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
What flag!....Are they the official flag of the UK? Is the tricolour the official flag of the UK?

I live in the British City of St Albans. lI see these flags....

St Albans saltire.


The Cross of St. George.


The Union Flag.


And even the Gay Pride Flag.


....flying from the Town-hall, but the last thing I would expect to see is any foreign rag fluttering on one of my countries government buildings unless it was a rare one-off event.

I wonder how the Americans would feel at seeing the Mexican flag flying from their town-halls or the French 'drapeau tricolore' on the odd Rathäuser

Paul
And i live 10 miles north of St Albans on the doorstep of one of the uk's most diverse towns and recruiting ground for AQ.
The union flag still flies over luton.



Sometimes

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  #69  
Old 22 Jan 13, 04:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karri View Post
Because there's quite a few places in the city that flies the flag.
The Union Flag is flown in Dublin, as is the French Tricolour, the Stars and Stripes and flags from many other countries but they are not flown over official buildings.
That said I wouldn’t refer to the flag of another country (or state) as a “foreign rag”.
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  #70  
Old 22 Jan 13, 04:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billscottmorri View Post
Getting back to the point of this thread. It is clear that the majority of the City Council wanted the flag rules changed and as a Scottish Nationalist myself I fully understand that. I am pleased that the Union flag is not flown much in Scotland. But I would not want people beaten, imprisoned and potentiially killed for the sake of of it.

The Alliance Party should have been more mature on this. Striking down the British flag is their right, but running behind the cover of British policemen who take the pain of their decisions and shrieking like outraged teenagers reflects poorly on them.

Did we learn nothing from South Africa? This point scoring is shallow and tragic.
No Bill,it's not their right.
It's a British city,it's not Irish.
If they don't want it,I'd be delighted to see them join their Southern brethren.See how Eire handles that!
My perceptions on this subject may be coloured by my multiple tours over there but,hey,that's how opinions should be formed,if you're confused?...Go and see for yourself.
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  #71  
Old 22 Jan 13, 04:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flash View Post
No Bill,it's not their right.
It's a British city,it's not Irish.
If they don't want it,I'd be delighted to see them join their Southern brethren.See how Eire handles that!
My perceptions on this subject may be coloured by my multiple tours over there but,hey,that's how opinions should be formed,if you're confused?...Go and see for yourself.
There was no proposal to fly the Irish flag over the city hall. What they have decided is to not fly any flag on certain days.

The fact is that the Union flag is seen as a symbol of oppression by a sizable proportion of the population of Northern Ireland. There may be little basis for that opinion in the present day but it’s safe to say that there is very strong historical reasons for holding that view.
The position of the Nationalist population of Northern Ireland is that the partition of the Island of Ireland was unjust as Northern Ireland had no separate historical identity. It would be like Suffolk voting to become a republic and justifying it’s decision based on the views of the majority of the population of Suffolk rather than the majority of the people in England or the UK. Therefore saying that the population with a tradition that goes back three to four thousand years ,rather than three to four hundred years in the case of the Unionist tradition that dates back to the 1600’s, should go somewhere else is crass to say the least.

Both traditions have the right to be there and both have the right to hold the views they hold. Neither tradition had the right to kill anyone, oppress anyone, be triumphalist or stop others expressing their views in a civil and peaceful way. That’s why it’s still going on; there are no “good guys” and “bad guys”.
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Last edited by E.D. Morel; 22 Jan 13 at 08:59..
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  #72  
Old 22 Jan 13, 12:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flash View Post
No Bill,it's not their right.
It's a British city,it's not Irish.
If they don't want it,I'd be delighted to see them join their Southern brethren.See how Eire handles that!
My perceptions on this subject may be coloured by my multiple tours over there but,hey,that's how opinions should be formed,if you're confused?...Go and see for yourself.
Sorry but the people of Belfast have the same right as those in Glasgow and most other Scottish towns that rarely fly the Union flag on their Council Chambers (as we call town halls).

I have no idea of Glasgow voted not to fly the British flag or it just stopped gradually but you will not see it very often now in Scotland. Last time I looked Scottish flags outnumbered British ones by well over 10 to one on offical buildings except on the Queen's birthday and so forth.
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  #73  
Old 22 Jan 13, 12:15
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Originally Posted by billscottmorri View Post
Sorry but the people of Belfast have the same right as those in Glasgow and most other Scottish towns that rarely fly the Union flag on their Council Chambers (as we call town halls).

I have no idea of Glasgow voted not to fly the British flag or it just stopped gradually but you will not see it very often now in Scotland. Last time I looked Scottish flags outnumbered British ones by well over 10 to one on offical buildings except on the Queen's birthday and so forth.
Well you sodding well should have to,until you're out of the UK.
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  #74  
Old 22 Jan 13, 12:35
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Originally Posted by flash View Post
Well you sodding well should have to,until you're out of the UK.
Flag flying isn’t that important to me but Jingoism was never my cut of tea.
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  #75  
Old 22 Jan 13, 13:31
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