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Military Reenactments Reenactors help to preserve our heritage by recreating and sharing the past.

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  #16  
Old 10 Jan 13, 21:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Fraser View Post
OMG! There really IS a Sergeant Schultz!

Regards
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The fat bloke in the blue pyjamas has got room for another 6 ammo pouches.
Snipers dream he is.
Aaaaah bless him!

On a more serious note though.I think it must be difficult not to get "into character" as the thespians would say.
If I put it on I might invade Poland.
No sane person would support nazi views but I can't see wearing a fake SS uniform causing any problems.
I'm sure that wearing an Old Guard uniform and waving an eagle about in 1875 would have raised a few eyebrows.
I myself have built many model vehicles with runes on them and I think they look great,wearing a uniform could be considered as taking things a step further than that.
I detect a whiff of political correctness about this thread,do we erase the SS from history?Already we see kit manufacturers omitting swastikas from box art!!!
What's that all about?
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  #17  
Old 10 Jan 13, 22:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flash View Post
The fat bloke in the blue pyjamas has got room for another 6 ammo pouches.
Snipers dream he is.
Aaaaah bless him!

On a more serious note though.I think it must be difficult not to get "into character" as the thespians would say.
If I put it on I might invade Poland.
No sane person would support nazi views but I can't see wearing a fake SS uniform causing any problems.
I'm sure that wearing an Old Guard uniform and waving an eagle about in 1875 would have raised a few eyebrows.
I myself have built many model vehicles with runes on them and I think they look great,wearing a uniform could be considered as taking things a step further than that.
I detect a whiff of political correctness about this thread,do we erase the SS from history?Already we see kit manufacturers omitting swastikas from box art!!!
What's that all about?
I'm not against people posing as Waffen SS or Mongul horse archers, It's when they want to go around like they 'are' said military and start playing war just like 'real sowjers' that grips my s#1t

Paul
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  #18  
Old 11 Jan 13, 04:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flash View Post
Already we see kit manufacturers omitting swastikas from box art!!!
What's that all about?
My understanding is that it's so their products can be legally displayed and sold by licensed retailers in the few countries that ban public display of the swastika. So in the countries where it isn't a problem (which is most), we have to put up with a black rectangle or suchlike on WW2 German aircraft tailfins, instead of a swastika, in the box art.

I've not great objection, so long as the decal sheet inside the box includes proper tailfin swastikas so I can build and finish my WW2 German planes to a historically correct appearance.
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  #19  
Old 11 Jan 13, 05:09
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Interesting thread...

The pictures posted above make me cringe…it’s a very small amount of people like them that give re-enactors a bad name, the belief that we just “play at being soldiers” with no respect for the brave people who actually fought and died, and no understanding of authenticity.

What many people do not understand is that “re-enactment” has many different strands to it, not all good IMO. Some people just want to pose around in costume, say at the many WWII weekends at preserved Steam Railways across the UK, maybe to show off all the original uniforms they have collected. Other adrenaline junkies use it as an excuse to have a good scrap, the “beer and bash” types… turn up to a large scale event be it Viking or English Civil War, spend several hours beating the s**t out of each other or firing their guns and then get hammered in the beer tent. That said, I’d say the vast majority of groups (in the UK anyway) are, for the most part, educational. Re-enactment is a big crowd puller and most historic houses, castles, museums and other sites take advantage of this to complement their own displays of the period they cover. A good skirmish pulls in the crowds and a “Living History Camp”, when done correctly, provides a hands on education to the public which TV and books just can’t . A lot of re-enactors go to amazing lengths to research the period they re-enact, gaining a huge amount of knowledge which they share with the public, be it at a castle, school, university or television company.

As a re-enactor myself, I have no problem with people choosing to represent SS or Japanese or whoever, as long as they do it respectfully and accurately. IMO all sides of war should be represented, not just a rose tinted view of the victors. After all, British Gov’t troops did their fair share of atrocities in the highlands after the ’45 rebellion, as did the native Americans in the F&I war, but as that is now out of living memory people (understandably) have less of a problem with it then with more recent WWII stuff. Granted, it provides a loop hole for extremists, but they are very few in number, in fact I have seen more on this forum than I have personally seen in re-enactment! From what I have seen, the TV programme mentioned above set out to portray re-enactors as disrespectful, sinister loony’s, which although true for a very small percentage, as in any social group, is simply not the case.

To answer the OP, I joined my current 18th Century group as I had a great interest in the period and wanted to find out more about the 1745 Jacobite Rebellion and then share that knowledge with others. I find interacting with the public and performing displays in schools etc very rewarding. My group, although small – about 150 members or so, prides itself on its accuracy of its portrayals and how many requests our members get to provide consultancy for film, TV, museums and even the MOD. We take part in small scale skirmishes for our own and the public’s enjoyment but our main occupation is to provide a representation of a British military camp in the mid C18th, complete with sentries, drill sessions, sutlers, chaplains etc… for interaction with the public. Of course, I also do it for my own personal pleasure…you cannot experience the adrenaline and sheer power from taking part in or being on the receiving end of a 100+ horse cavalry charge, from just reading a book!!!!
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  #20  
Old 11 Jan 13, 06:52
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Good post from the inside, Eliot Like I say, I think it helps people see history - kids especially will find it a lot more interesting that a dusty mannequin in a uniform, to speak to someone who knows their stuff and observe 'living history' - hence the popular appeal of such shows and events. I've certainly enjoyed the one's I've seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Other adrenaline junkies use it as an excuse to have a good scrap, the “beer and bash” types… turn up to a large scale event be it Viking or English Civil War, spend several hours beating the s**t out of each other or firing their guns and then get hammered in the beer tent
Oddly enough, that sounds to me like the Vikings have so much fun, it'd be worth going along!
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  #21  
Old 11 Jan 13, 08:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selous View Post
Oddly enough, that sounds to me like the Vikings have so much fun, it'd be worth going along!
Nah, they're an uncivilized lot, the Vikings. In fact they all are before about 1700!

An interesting article in the Telegraph here: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/di...s-why-i-do-it/
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  #22  
Old 11 Jan 13, 09:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lodestar View Post
.....in other words he said what you’d expect someone from the friggin’ actual SS to say!Don’t know what happened but I imagine recruitment to the re-enactment group did not go up.
I wouldn't bet on that.......

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  #23  
Old 11 Jan 13, 12:32
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If you want to live like a soldier - join the army

During my studies, I knew some historians who built for example roman boats or weapons to understand better how they worked or they could have been used (possible range etc.). So reenactment can be a way to understand some parts of history.

Otherwise, what is the use of all this?
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  #24  
Old 11 Jan 13, 12:39
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I like the Roman period because;

a) It's far enough in the past that you won't upset anyone.

b) The look on the kids' faces when they can actually ask questions of a Roman, seeing what each bit of kit does, etc.


"Why is your sword on the right ?" is a great one to answer with a demonstration.
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  #25  
Old 11 Jan 13, 14:21
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So reenactors get the s#1t kicked out of each other then have a good p1$$ up after...Mmmm! sure beats a white stone six foot above your prone body. or a nice snug grave pit.

And if people want to experience horses 'charging' they should go to the Grand National or the Derby. There they will see horses going at full pelt not a trot which was more or less the norm for cavalry.

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  #26  
Old 11 Jan 13, 14:32
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The King’s Company

And then there's "The King’s Company of Historical Reenactors", spend some time on this link:

http://www.thekingscompany.ca/TheKin...y/Welcome.html

These guys (folks really) are VERY good. The big fella in the 15th Regt. of Foot, F&I War uniform on the front page, and below is a friend & former co-worker. I was offered "The King's Shilling", but declined - with these folks it really is a lifestyle choice.
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File Type: png Rex 15th Foot.png (145.4 KB, 20 views)
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  #27  
Old 12 Jan 13, 00:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign Elliott View Post
Interesting thread...

The pictures posted above make me cringe…it’s a very small amount of people like them that give re-enactors a bad name, the belief that we just “play at being soldiers” with no respect for the brave people who actually fought and died, and no understanding of authenticity.

What many people do not understand is that “re-enactment” has many different strands to it, not all good IMO. Some people just want to pose around in costume, say at the many WWII weekends at preserved Steam Railways across the UK, maybe to show off all the original uniforms they have collected. Other adrenaline junkies use it as an excuse to have a good scrap, the “beer and bash” types… turn up to a large scale event be it Viking or English Civil War, spend several hours beating the s**t out of each other or firing their guns and then get hammered in the beer tent. That said, I’d say the vast majority of groups (in the UK anyway) are, for the most part, educational. Re-enactment is a big crowd puller and most historic houses, castles, museums and other sites take advantage of this to complement their own displays of the period they cover. A good skirmish pulls in the crowds and a “Living History Camp”, when done correctly, provides a hands on education to the public which TV and books just can’t . A lot of re-enactors go to amazing lengths to research the period they re-enact, gaining a huge amount of knowledge which they share with the public, be it at a castle, school, university or television company.

As a re-enactor myself, I have no problem with people choosing to represent SS or Japanese or whoever, as long as they do it respectfully and accurately. IMO all sides of war should be represented, not just a rose tinted view of the victors. After all, British Gov’t troops did their fair share of atrocities in the highlands after the ’45 rebellion, as did the native Americans in the F&I war, but as that is now out of living memory people (understandably) have less of a problem with it then with more recent WWII stuff. Granted, it provides a loop hole for extremists, but they are very few in number, in fact I have seen more on this forum than I have personally seen in re-enactment! From what I have seen, the TV programme mentioned above set out to portray re-enactors as disrespectful, sinister loony’s, which although true for a very small percentage, as in any social group, is simply not the case.

To answer the OP, I joined my current 18th Century group as I had a great interest in the period and wanted to find out more about the 1745 Jacobite Rebellion and then share that knowledge with others. I find interacting with the public and performing displays in schools etc very rewarding. My group, although small – about 150 members or so, prides itself on its accuracy of its portrayals and how many requests our members get to provide consultancy for film, TV, museums and even the MOD. We take part in small scale skirmishes for our own and the public’s enjoyment but our main occupation is to provide a representation of a British military camp in the mid C18th, complete with sentries, drill sessions, sutlers, chaplains etc… for interaction with the public. Of course, I also do it for my own personal pleasure…you cannot experience the adrenaline and sheer power from taking part in or being on the receiving end of a 100+ horse cavalry charge, from just reading a book!!!!
Well said, Ensign Elliott.

As long as the re-enactments are carried out completely seriously with a painstaking and thorough approach to complete authenticity then they are uniquely valuable in giving the viewing public an insight into both military and social history.

The Australian Light Horse units I mentioned earlier in the thread have genuine supply wagons in support and a field hospital, staffed by properly uniformed nurses.
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  #28  
Old 12 Jan 13, 08:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panther3485 View Post
My understanding is that it's so their products can be legally displayed and sold by licensed retailers in the few countries that ban public display of the swastika. So in the countries where it isn't a problem (which is most), we have to put up with a black rectangle or suchlike on WW2 German aircraft tailfins, instead of a swastika, in the box art.

I've not great objection, so long as the decal sheet inside the box includes proper tailfin swastikas so I can build and finish my WW2 German planes to a historically correct appearance.
Agreed entirely but don't you think some people take things a bit far regarding historical motifs?
Not withstanding that it represented a repugnant regime, nevertheless it is a historic symbol and in my view shouldn't be omitted or obfuscated in any way.
It's the first step on the way to future historians coming to terms with nazism, much as present day historians seem to consider Napoleon to be a benign presence in history.
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Old 12 Jan 13, 08:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flash View Post
"Agreed entirely but don't you think some people take things a bit far regarding historical motifs?
Not withstanding that it represented a repugnant regime, nevertheless it is a historic symbol and in my view shouldn't be omitted or obfuscated in any way."
Yes, I agree totally. Those kit manufacturers are merely trying to ensure that their goods comply with certain laws that affect a portion of their market so I can't really blame them. That said, I think it's unfortunate because scale models are more often than not built by older kids and adults for display and historical interest, rather than younger children for use as 'toys'; and as such do tend to help with our understanding of history if we are that way inclined. Blacking out the tailfin swastikas in that context amounts to a kind of 'whitewashing' of history, IMO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flash View Post
"It's the first step on the way to future historians coming to terms with nazism, much as present day historians seem to consider Napoleon to be a benign presence in history."
I wouldn't have thought that future historians will, in the main, ever be able to regard the Nazi regime as benign but who knows? I don't expect to be around by then anyway.

Dealing with this question in our own time can be interesting enough, though. I remember some 20 or so years ago, setting up a display in my local shopping mall for the modelling club I was a member of at the time. Included in this display, as you might expect, was a substantial number of WW2 German aircraft. As you might also expect, being built and finished by keen modellers they were finished in colours and markings as authentic as we could get and naturally, this included the tailfin swastikas. Our display generated a lot of interest and many hundreds of people stopped to examine the models and chat to us about them, and the hobby in general. I clearly remember one middle-aged lady who became most angry and indignant at our 'display' of the swastika in this fashion and she demanded that we either erase the swastikas from those tailfins immediately or remove the 'offending' models from our display. Naturally, we refused as we were not breaking any laws and nobody else that day had been 'offended' by any of our models. A couple of our members even attempted to reason with her, that the models in question were historical representations and therefore needed to be as accurate as we could make them in all details, including markings. As you might guess, we were wasting our time. She stormed off angrily after another of our members suggested that she need not look at the planes at all, and could easily walk away from our display if she didn't like them. (Actually, he wasn't quite as polite as that. Losing patience after our failed efforts to reason with her, it was more like, "Well, why don't you just piss off if you don't like our models!!!?" )

Upon later reflection, some of us thought of the possibility that she may have had a family member who suffered Nazi atrocities or something similar; so perhaps her sensitivity was a product of that. We'll never know.

Takes all sorts to make a World, my friend.
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Old 12 Jan 13, 09:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panther3485 View Post
Yes, I agree totally. Those kit manufacturers are merely trying to ensure that their goods comply with certain laws that affect a portion of their market so I can't really blame them. That said, I think it's unfortunate because scale models are more often than not built by older kids and adults for display and historical interest, rather than younger children for use as 'toys'; and as such do tend to help with our understanding of history if we are that way inclined. Blacking out the tailfin swastikas in that context amounts to a kind of 'whitewashing' of history, IMO.




I wouldn't have thought that future historians will, in the main, ever be able to regard the Nazi regime as benign but who knows? I don't expect to be around by then anyway.

Dealing with this question in our own time can be interesting enough, though. I remember some 20 or so years ago, setting up a display in my local shopping mall for the modelling club I was a member of at the time. Included in this display, as you might expect, was a substantial number of WW2 German aircraft. As you might also expect, being built and finished by keen modellers they were finished in colours and markings as authentic as we could get and naturally, this included the tailfin swastikas. Our display generated a lot of interest and many hundreds of people stopped to examine the models and chat to us about them, and the hobby in general. I clearly remember one middle-aged lady who became most angry and indignant at our 'display' of the swastika in this fashion and she demanded that we either erase the swastikas from those tailfins immediately or remove the 'offending' models from our display. Naturally, we refused as we were not breaking any laws and nobody else that day had been 'offended' by any of our models. A couple of our members even attempted to reason with her, that the models in question were historical representations and therefore needed to be as accurate as we could make them in all details, including markings. As you might guess, we were wasting our time. She stormed off angrily after another of our members suggested that she need not look at the planes at all, and could easily walk away from our display if she didn't like them. (Actually, he wasn't quite as polite as that. Losing patience after our failed efforts to reason with her, it was more like, "Well, why don't you just piss off if you don't like our models!!!?" )

Upon later reflection, some of us thought of the possibility that she may have had a family member who suffered Nazi atrocities or something similar; so perhaps her sensitivity was a product of that. We'll never know.

Takes all sorts to make a World, my friend.
Yes,yes and agreed
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