The Purpose of the High Seas Fleet

[Pruitt]

Dave, we have had several endless debates about the Schlieffen Plan before you joined. It was too big to control already.

Hindsight might show something as obvious now, but back then the answer was a Naval Arms Race.

Pruitt

[Nickuru]

Originally Posted by The Purist

Strachan summarises the the aim of the German fleet building program very well (p. 11 & 12). While the naval staffs planned for war with Russia and France the aim of Tirpitz was alway the "putative enemy" - the Royal Navy.

"Tirpitz shared the Anglophobia of his royal master
and he linked commercial rivalry with Britain
to the navalist propaganda emanating from the
Imperial Naval Office. Tirpitz hoped to create a
sufficiently large fleet to ensure the Royal Navy
would not risk a naval battle with the Germans
for fear that - even if it won the engagement -
it would be too weak to face a third naval power."

The First World War, Volume 1: To Arms p. 11

Unfortunately for Tirpitz all his calculations vis-a-vis the British reaction and German diplomatic skills proved wrong.

In reality, what sunk the Germans was their complete lack of diplomatic skills after Otto von Bismarck. Friedrich von Holstein might have been the closest to having them, but everyone else was clueless. And this includes Tirpitz in trying to design a navy against Great Britain. Vo ist mein schnapps?

[broderickwells]

Originally Posted by Pruitt

Dave, we have had several endless debates about the Schlieffen Plan before you joined. It was too big to control already.

Hindsight might show something as obvious now, but back then the answer was a Naval Arms Race.

Pruitt

If the answer was a naval arms race, what was the question?

[Dashy]

Originally Posted by broderickwells

If the answer was a naval arms race, what was the question?

42?

[Full Monty]

Originally Posted by Dashy

42?

What's 9 times 6? 42 is the answer.

[Full Monty]

Originally Posted by spwgame

To stay on topic, the BB fleet was a colossal waste of limited resources. Not even Germany could build and man everything.

Their thinking was that this problem would be Britain's, not Germany's.

[spwgame]

Unfortunately for Germany, it ended up putting a serious dent in their "start of war" army. All of their plans were geared towards the Schlieffen Plan working. Then they diverted substantial resources into a navy that would spend most of the war twiddling its thumbs.

I agree that the diplomatic arena was a disaster for Germany as well. Not continuing the alliance with Russia was a monumental disaster. If they had to, they should have cut themselves loose from Austria Hungary to get an alliance with Russia.

[Full Monty]

Originally Posted by spwgame

Unfortunately for Germany, it ended up putting a serious dent in their "start of war" army. All of their plans were geared towards the Schlieffen Plan working. Then they diverted substantial resources into a navy that would spend most of the war twiddling its thumbs.

Well, the peacetime army's size was regulated by the constitution. This could have been changed but if not it seems they received the men and the equipment that they needed, navy or no navy. In hindsight the High Seas Fleet was a waste of resources, BUT it did also force the British to spend vast sums on their fleet, sums that might have been better spent elsewhere.

[Glenn239]

Originally Posted by Full Monty

What's 9 times 6? 42 is the answer.

No, no no. 42 is the answer. To determine the question, you need the smartest computer ever built and 10,000 years.

[Full Monty]

Originally Posted by Glenn239

No, no no. 42 is the answer. To determine the question, you need the smartest computer ever built and 10,000 years.

I said 42 was the answer and the question is 'What's 9 x 6?' Earth was built to give the question but was destroyed by the Vogon Constructor Fleet minutes before it was due. As the last surviving Earth dweller Arthur Dent had it buried in his subconscious.

[broderickwells]

Originally Posted by Full Monty

What's 9 times 6? 42 is the answer.

I always knew there was something wrong with the universe.

[broderickwells]

Originally Posted by Full Monty

I said 42 was the answer and the question is 'What's 9 x 6?' Earth was built to give the question but was destroyed by the Vogon Constructor Fleet minutes before it was due. As the last surviving Earth dweller Arthur Dent had it buried in his subconscious.

So did Trillian.

[Full Monty]

Originally Posted by broderickwells

So did Trillian.

Yes, but she'd been whisked away by Zaphod Beeblebrox some time prior to the destruction of Earth by the Vogons so she wouldn't have the answer. Only Dent had it which was why the mice were prepared to buy his brain.

[Full Monty]

Originally Posted by broderickwells

I always knew there was something wrong with the universe.

We need to convert to a numbering system that utilises base 13. Then 9 times 6 will equal 42 and the universe will be in harmony!

[Dashy]

Back to the point, I think we can all agree on the following points.

• The Main Purpose of the High Seas Fleet was to contest British Control of the sea. Whenever the Germans engaged the Russians (they never, IIRC, engaged the french navy) They rather interestingly ususally used their Pre Dreadnoughts or Battlecruisers, especially in earlier battles.
• The High Seas fleet, impressive as it was, was no match for the Grand Fleet, especially after the launching of the Queen Elizabeth Class dreadnoughts. Even with almost every possible disadvantage at Jutland they still managed a draw with the better prepared Germans. To give the uninformed an Idea, Dreyer, possibly the worlds leading expert on gunnery at the time, estimated the Germans would have lost some 6-9 BB's had the British shells been functioning!!!
• The Construction of the High Seas Fleet is possibly among the list of "Greatest Wastes Of Moolah", it's meagre benefits were providing eye candy for the Kaiser and giving the Germans some Naval cred. The Negatives included removing British Neutralirty and being utterly useless.

I think that covers the salient points.