HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
British Heritage
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > World War I

Notices and Announcements

World War I The war to end all wars.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #151  
Old 10 Jan 13, 18:28
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Summer Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 19,292
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Dave, we have had several endless debates about the Schlieffen Plan before you joined. It was too big to control already.

Hindsight might show something as obvious now, but back then the answer was a Naval Arms Race.

Pruitt
__________________
Ted Nugent quote to the Troops: "It may be a week until deer hunting season, but its open season on a**holes all year long!"

Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?
Reply With Quote
  #152  
Old 10 Jan 13, 20:56
Nickuru's Avatar
Nickuru Nickuru is offline
Lieutenant Colonel
UK
 
Real Name: Nick Wolf
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Raleigh
Posts: 1,489
Nickuru is on the path to success [1-99] Nickuru is on the path to success [1-99] Nickuru is on the path to success [1-99] Nickuru is on the path to success [1-99] Nickuru is on the path to success [1-99] Nickuru is on the path to success [1-99] Nickuru is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
Strachan summarises the the aim of the German fleet building program very well (p. 11 & 12). While the naval staffs planned for war with Russia and France the aim of Tirpitz was alway the "putative enemy" - the Royal Navy.

"Tirpitz shared the Anglophobia of his royal master
and he linked commercial rivalry with Britain
to the navalist propaganda emanating from the
Imperial Naval Office. Tirpitz hoped to create a
sufficiently large fleet to ensure the Royal Navy
would not risk a naval battle with the Germans
for fear that - even if it won the engagement -
it would be too weak to face a third naval power."

The First World War, Volume 1: To Arms p. 11

Unfortunately for Tirpitz all his calculations vis-a-vis the British reaction and German diplomatic skills proved wrong.
In reality, what sunk the Germans was their complete lack of diplomatic skills after Otto von Bismarck. Friedrich von Holstein might have been the closest to having them, but everyone else was clueless. And this includes Tirpitz in trying to design a navy against Great Britain. Vo ist mein schnapps?
__________________
When looking for the reason why things go wrong, never rule out stupidity, Murphy's Law Nš 8
Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. George Santayana
"Ach du schwein" a German parrot captured at Bukoba GEA the only prisoner taken
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 11 Jan 13, 04:28
broderickwells's Avatar
broderickwells broderickwells is offline
General of the Forums
New_Zealand
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 9,129
broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
Dave, we have had several endless debates about the Schlieffen Plan before you joined. It was too big to control already.

Hindsight might show something as obvious now, but back then the answer was a Naval Arms Race.

Pruitt
If the answer was a naval arms race, what was the question?
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 11 Jan 13, 05:00
Dashy's Avatar
Dashy Dashy is offline
General
Pirate
Best Pin-Up Of World War II Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Scott Daly
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Salisbury, At least in Spirit
Posts: 5,004
Dashy is simply cracking [600]
Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600]
Quote:
Originally Posted by broderickwells View Post
If the answer was a naval arms race, what was the question?
42?
__________________
Slava Popede!
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 11 Jan 13, 06:00
Full Monty's Avatar
Full Monty Full Monty is offline
General of the Forums
EU
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Dick Barton
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Essex
Posts: 26,444
Full Monty has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashy View Post
42?
What's 9 times 6? 42 is the answer.
__________________
Signing out.
Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 11 Jan 13, 06:05
Full Monty's Avatar
Full Monty Full Monty is offline
General of the Forums
EU
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Dick Barton
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Essex
Posts: 26,444
Full Monty has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by spwgame View Post
To stay on topic, the BB fleet was a colossal waste of limited resources. Not even Germany could build and man everything.
Their thinking was that this problem would be Britain's, not Germany's.
__________________
Signing out.
Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 11 Jan 13, 11:12
spwgame's Avatar
spwgame spwgame is offline
First Sergeant
United_States
 
Real Name: Dave
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sandy
Posts: 255
spwgame is on the path to success [1-99] spwgame is on the path to success [1-99]
Unfortunately for Germany, it ended up putting a serious dent in their "start of war" army. All of their plans were geared towards the Schlieffen Plan working. Then they diverted substantial resources into a navy that would spend most of the war twiddling its thumbs.

I agree that the diplomatic arena was a disaster for Germany as well. Not continuing the alliance with Russia was a monumental disaster. If they had to, they should have cut themselves loose from Austria Hungary to get an alliance with Russia.
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 11 Jan 13, 12:43
Full Monty's Avatar
Full Monty Full Monty is offline
General of the Forums
EU
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Dick Barton
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Essex
Posts: 26,444
Full Monty has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by spwgame View Post
Unfortunately for Germany, it ended up putting a serious dent in their "start of war" army. All of their plans were geared towards the Schlieffen Plan working. Then they diverted substantial resources into a navy that would spend most of the war twiddling its thumbs.
Well, the peacetime army's size was regulated by the constitution. This could have been changed but if not it seems they received the men and the equipment that they needed, navy or no navy. In hindsight the High Seas Fleet was a waste of resources, BUT it did also force the British to spend vast sums on their fleet, sums that might have been better spent elsewhere.
__________________
Signing out.
Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 11 Jan 13, 13:10
Glenn239's Avatar
Glenn239 Glenn239 is offline
General
Canada
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 5,383
Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Monty View Post
What's 9 times 6? 42 is the answer.
No, no no. 42 is the answer. To determine the question, you need the smartest computer ever built and 10,000 years.
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 11 Jan 13, 13:18
Full Monty's Avatar
Full Monty Full Monty is offline
General of the Forums
EU
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Dick Barton
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Essex
Posts: 26,444
Full Monty has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn239 View Post
No, no no. 42 is the answer. To determine the question, you need the smartest computer ever built and 10,000 years.
I said 42 was the answer and the question is 'What's 9 x 6?' Earth was built to give the question but was destroyed by the Vogon Constructor Fleet minutes before it was due. As the last surviving Earth dweller Arthur Dent had it buried in his subconscious.
__________________
Signing out.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #161  
Old 11 Jan 13, 14:22
broderickwells's Avatar
broderickwells broderickwells is offline
General of the Forums
New_Zealand
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 9,129
broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Monty View Post
What's 9 times 6? 42 is the answer.
I always knew there was something wrong with the universe.
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 11 Jan 13, 14:25
broderickwells's Avatar
broderickwells broderickwells is offline
General of the Forums
New_Zealand
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 9,129
broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] broderickwells has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Monty View Post
I said 42 was the answer and the question is 'What's 9 x 6?' Earth was built to give the question but was destroyed by the Vogon Constructor Fleet minutes before it was due. As the last surviving Earth dweller Arthur Dent had it buried in his subconscious.
So did Trillian.
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 11 Jan 13, 15:08
Full Monty's Avatar
Full Monty Full Monty is offline
General of the Forums
EU
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Dick Barton
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Essex
Posts: 26,444
Full Monty has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by broderickwells View Post
So did Trillian.
Yes, but she'd been whisked away by Zaphod Beeblebrox some time prior to the destruction of Earth by the Vogons so she wouldn't have the answer. Only Dent had it which was why the mice were prepared to buy his brain.
__________________
Signing out.
Reply With Quote
  #164  
Old 11 Jan 13, 15:10
Full Monty's Avatar
Full Monty Full Monty is offline
General of the Forums
EU
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Dick Barton
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Essex
Posts: 26,444
Full Monty has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by broderickwells View Post
I always knew there was something wrong with the universe.
We need to convert to a numbering system that utilises base 13. Then 9 times 6 will equal 42 and the universe will be in harmony!
__________________
Signing out.
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 11 Jan 13, 15:56
Dashy's Avatar
Dashy Dashy is offline
General
Pirate
Best Pin-Up Of World War II Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Scott Daly
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Salisbury, At least in Spirit
Posts: 5,004
Dashy is simply cracking [600]
Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600]


Back to the point, I think we can all agree on the following points.
  • The Main Purpose of the High Seas Fleet was to contest British Control of the sea. Whenever the Germans engaged the Russians (they never, IIRC, engaged the french navy) They rather interestingly ususally used their Pre Dreadnoughts or Battlecruisers, especially in earlier battles.
  • The High Seas fleet, impressive as it was, was no match for the Grand Fleet, especially after the launching of the Queen Elizabeth Class dreadnoughts. Even with almost every possible disadvantage at Jutland they still managed a draw with the better prepared Germans. To give the uninformed an Idea, Dreyer, possibly the worlds leading expert on gunnery at the time, estimated the Germans would have lost some 6-9 BB's had the British shells been functioning!!!
  • The Construction of the High Seas Fleet is possibly among the list of "Greatest Wastes Of Moolah", it's meagre benefits were providing eye candy for the Kaiser and giving the Germans some Naval cred. The Negatives included removing British Neutralirty and being utterly useless.


I think that covers the salient points.
__________________
Slava Popede!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:04.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.