French Elections thread

[Karri]

Originally Posted by Destroyer25

That's oxymoronic. Taxing the rich only weakens the economy by scaring away capital and reducing tax revenues. But why I am surprised that a Socialist doesn't know anything about economics? Hell, even some of the moderate left in France had the sense to vote for Sarkozy, they knew that the Socialists would destroy the economy even more than it already is.

And where are the rich gonna go? And you don't really understand economics either, most companies are not run by railroad barons of the 19th century...

[Metryll]

Originally Posted by Snowygerry

...

For supply-side economics to work, you need effective consumers, they are running out quickly.

There one single rule on wich all economists agree, wathever theirs economic school or political stance are : Offer and Demand.

Demand alone is far left wing absurdity that Offer dont matter, i.e that wage can be created without profit.

Offer alone is economic far right wing absurdity that Demand dont matter, i.e that profit can be created without wage and it's the absurdity of the day, dying just before our eyes...

[Emtos]

And where are the rich gonna go? And you don't really understand economics either, most companies are not run by railroad barons of the 19th century...

To Belgium. We already made a guide with Belgian rules.

[Destroyer25]

Originally Posted by Karri

And where are the rich gonna go?

They'll move all their money off shore or just move to a country with lower taxes.

Originally Posted by Karri

And you don't really understand economics either, most companies are not run by railroad barons of the 19th century...

Actually I do, far better than you that's for sure.

[Karri]

Originally Posted by Destroyer25

They'll move all their money off shore or just move to a country with lower taxes.

Yeah, that's what they say. In truth they have already moved their books to some tax haven, and would have done so unless there was 0% taxes, or they will not move anywhere.

I mean, do you have any proof to back this up? Of the "rich" actually escaping? Has it happened anywhere?

Actually I do, far better than you that's for sure.

No, you don't. For one thing, the rich don't control the companies. They might get paid from them, but most companies of the size we are discussing are plc's, and the companies themselves are not effected by taxing the rich more.

But, I'm more than glad to hear your explanation on how this will lead to the destruction of french economy.

[Miss Saigon]

Originally Posted by Karri

I mean, do you have any proof to back this up? Of the "rich" actually escaping? Has it happened anywhere?

That question made me immediately think of Elton John. When I googled him I found this list:

The list of musicians who left Britain for tax reasons included Ringo Starr, David Bowie, the Rolling Stones, Freddie Mercury, Pink Floyd, Sting, Phil Collins, Ozzy Osbourne, Cat Stevens, Ray Davies, and Bad Company.

http://www.wolfgangsvault.com/blog/i...e-a-tax-exile/

[Karri]

Originally Posted by Miss Saigon

That question made me immediately think of Elton John. When I googled him I found this list:



http://www.wolfgangsvault.com/blog/i...e-a-tax-exile/

It says Elton John stayed. Rod Stewart seems to live in UK at the moment. Being a tax exile is a bit more complicated than certain people make it out to be. For example in US you apparently have to move away and renounce your citizenship...and although you have a few famous names escaping, it does not really constitute as reliable statistic. How many didn't? What was the net effect?

Also the UK tax exiles were escaping from 83% tax, which is really high. In France the top bracket seems to be 41%. Of course increasing the tax to ridicilous levels is gonna have this effect, but that does not mean that rising the tax will have this effect.

In fact the current taxation in France seems quite low in European standards.

[Snowygerry]

Originally Posted by Destroyer25

The assertion that Nazism and Fascism are right wing is completely fallacious. I've already largely refuted that. Not that I'm saying you're asserting that.

Where exactly did you refute that? I'd like to take a look

Not very sportsmanlike to rewrite political history and not tell us about it, was it a book you wrote? a scientific article perhaps??

Please point us in the right direction -tnx.

[Metryll]

Originally Posted by Destroyer25

They'll move all their money off shore or just move to a country with lower taxes.

Did they in 1981 after Mitterand election or in 1988 ?

[Metryll]

Originally Posted by Karri

...

In fact the current taxation in France seems quite low in European standards.

According to Cour des Comptes, state lose at least 150 billions/year of missing revenue richest the richest part of citizens. Deficit is about 125 billions.

[Tiberius Duval]

Originally Posted by Metryll

According to Cour des Comptes, state lose at least 150 billions/year of missing revenue richest the richest part of citizens. Deficit is about 125 billions.

That's the real problem in whole west, it is not that we are poorer than for example in '80's, but the fact that most of the richest part of population can get off the hook with various means. So tax revenue shrinks, and tax burden mostly goes to middle class (as lower classes do not simply have much to tax). Then those same super rich parts attack against public spending and want more austerity and privatisation (which of course benefits them). When this goes on economic disparity levels explode, and begin to look like some third world societies, where tiny part of populace owns most of society, and rest nearly nothing.

And that is kind of situation which created socialism/communism in first place. If we really want to recreate something like it, yes then lets produce late 19th century society once more. Lets destroy middle class, lets pauperize lower classes, lets make merely rich to superuberhyper rich. Then wait for some years for somekind of new Lenin to emerge and all fine atrocities etc. which will follow.

Like it or not best assurance against radicalisation and communism is quite egalitarian society. So that difference between upper and lower classes is not one between palace and paupers shack, but between modest mansion and modest house.

[joea]

Originally Posted by Tiberius Duval

That's the real problem in whole west, it is not that we are poorer than for example in '80's, but the fact that most of the richest part of population can get off the hook with various means. So tax revenue shrinks, and tax burden mostly goes to middle class (as lower classes do not simply have much to tax). Then those same super rich parts attack against public spending and want more austerity and privatisation (which of course benefits them). When this goes on economic disparity levels explode, and begin to look like some third world societies, where tiny part of populace owns most of society, and rest nearly nothing.

And that is kind of situation which created socialism/communism in first place. If we really want to recreate something like it, yes then lets produce late 19th century society once more. Lets destroy middle class, lets pauperize lower classes, lets make merely rich to superuberhyper rich. Then wait for some years for somekind of new Lenin to emerge and all fine atrocities etc. which will follow.

Like it or not best assurance against radicalisation and communism is quite egalitarian society. So that difference between upper and lower classes is not one between palace and paupers shack, but between modest mansion and modest house.

You must spread some reputation etc. etc.

[Destroyer25]

Originally Posted by Snowygerry

Where exactly did you refute that? I'd like to take a look

Not very sportsmanlike to rewrite political history and not tell us about it, was it a book you wrote? a scientific article perhaps??

Please point us in the right direction -tnx.

The assertion that they are right wing ideologies is one only held by left wing revisionists. Please explain to me how National Socialism is a right wing ideology?

[asterix]

Former tennis star Yannick Noah hailed Holland's victory.....safely from his chalet in Switzerland where he lives to avoid French taxes.

[Destroyer25]

Originally Posted by asterix

Former tennis star Yannick Noah hailed Holland's victory.....safely from his chalet in Switzerland where he lives to avoid French taxes.

I rest my case.