Australia Delays Buying F-35 Jets in Push for Surplus

[Destroyer25]

Originally Posted by CAPT. JOE

The Canadian Government is also second guesting on buying the new F-35.

There's no other alternative. We need a new fighter and if we buy anything less than a 5th Gen we'll have to buy new ones again in a decade.

[kuma]

Originally Posted by Destroyer25

There's no other alternative. We need a new fighter and if we buy anything less than a 5th Gen we'll have to buy new ones again in a decade.

Agree 100%.
The guys with the braid on their caps have their preference quite clear and the reasons behind it. Still, if they want to spend the time and money to go thru an open bidding, anything to make the politicians happy I guess.,

[Rojik]

Originally Posted by GMan88

I guess getting used to an ally which happens to be the sole world superpower can put a damper to shelling out money for oneself. Countries can hardly be blamed for wanting to save dollars, not when it seems one country after another is suffering economically.

It's because the government is obsessed with posting a surplus that isn't that important economically but is politically. What it is is a lot of book cooking to shift obligations around here and there so that they can say they've kept a promise in the lead up to the next election.

[Sparlingo]

In Canada the Auditor-General reported to Parliment that the Conservative government was low-balling the cost the new planes. The opposition parties are all over it.

[Pruitt]

You are saying a government would LIE to Parliament? What next?

Pruitt

[Destroyer25]

Originally Posted by kuma

Agree 100%.
The guys with the braid on their caps have their preference quite clear and the reasons behind it. Still, if they want to spend the time and money to go thru an open bidding, anything to make the politicians happy I guess.,

I'm in favor of the open bidding just so I don't have to listen to the left QQ.

[kuma]

Originally Posted by Destroyer25

I'm in favor of the open bidding just so I don't have to listen to the left QQ.

Same here,just as long as the bureaucrats don't water down the specs.

[Pruitt]

I just hope the Government did not lowball the price like they did in Canada.

Pruitt

[Sparlingo]

Originally Posted by Pruitt

I just hope the Government did not lowball the price like they did in Canada.

Pruitt

The issue in Canada is over "full costing" and "basic costing". The Auditor General feels that the federal government should include maintenance and operation costs when they report, not just the purchase price. I'd say the F-35 could be in trouble here because it wasn't competitively bid, isn't great for northern patrols, and needs expensive adaptions for our uses. It certianly can't take any more surprises and still fly.

[kuma]

Originally Posted by Sparlingo

isn't great for northern patrols, and needs expensive adaptions for our uses. It certianly can't take any more surprises and still fly.

Care to elaborate?

[Sparlingo]

Originally Posted by kuma

Care to elaborate?

Sure. Here is a recent quote from a Canadian defence analyst

Retired colonel Paul Maillet, an aerospace engineer and former CF-18 fleet manager, said the F-35 does not meet the needs of the government’s Canada First Defence Strategy, a key pillar of which is Arctic sovereignty.

“How do you get a single-engine, low-range, low-payload, low-manoeuvrability aircraft that is being optimized for close air support . . . to operate effectively in the North?” he asked.

The full article is here http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/04...-colonel-says/

[kuma]

Originally Posted by Sparlingo

Sure. Here is a recent quote from a Canadian defence analyst



The full article is here http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/04...-colonel-says/

Pretty much the same discredited reasoning put forth by APA and Sprey and company. Funny you don't hear a peep from the Norwegians who are going to employ the F-35 in pretty much the same environment performing the same roles as the RCAF. One must also weigh the credibility of a retired colonel who appears to have no direct involvement with the JSF program vs the judgment and knowledge of more senior military officials who have a far better grasp of the planes actual capabilities and, importantly, how it fits in the overall strategic plan for the next several decades, things our retired good colonel would not have been privy to.
Lastly, re UAVs, they may be good at certain roles like surveillance or taking out terrorists,with a Hellfire but they're a long, long ways off before they can hope to match what a manned aircraft can do specially in terms of force projection.

[Sparlingo]

Originally Posted by kuma

Pretty much the same discredited reasoning put forth by APA and Sprey and company. Funny you don't hear a peep from the Norwegians who are going to employ the F-35 in pretty much the same environment performing the same roles as the RCAF. One must also weigh the credibility of a retired colonel who appears to have no direct involvement with the JSF program vs the judgment and knowledge of more senior military officials who have a far better grasp of the planes actual capabilities and, importantly, how it fits in the overall strategic plan for the next several decades, things our retired good colonel would not have been privy to.
Lastly, re UAVs, they may be good at certain roles like surveillance or taking out terrorists,with a Hellfire but they're a long, long ways off before they can hope to match what a manned aircraft can do specially in terms of force projection.

I think you are right Kuma. I missed where our dear colonel ran a couple of times for the Green Party. I support the aircraft, I am only noting that the opposition here is making a lot of hay out of the way the Conservatives are handling it.

[kuma]

Originally Posted by Sparlingo

I think you are right Kuma. I missed where our dear colonel ran a couple of times for the Green Party. I support the aircraft, I am only noting that the opposition here is making a lot of hay out of the way the Conservatives are handling it.

They definitely could have done a better job of Justifying the F-35 decision.

[Sparlingo]

Originally Posted by kuma

They definitely could have done a better job of Justifying the F-35 decision.

No decision yet, PM Harper is noting that no contract has been signed yet. His emphasis now seems to be getting more Aerospace work for Canada out of the deal.