WW2 Colors

[razorboy]

Three cans of WW2 Issue German Camo. Paint with "Color Labels" - That "Rotbraun" shade is .... "Interesting" to say the least.

[lufttiger]

Are these the real deal?, great find RB where did you get them?
The red brown is really more reddish color than i thought.
These would be great pallet references too!

[razorboy]

Originally Posted by lufttiger

Are these the real deal?, great find RB where did you get them?
The red brown is really more reddish color than i thought.
These would be great pallet references too!

I wish that they were mine but no. Someone posted these on Ron Volstad's Facebook page here > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=622156230
I suspect that they were lightened a bit once thinned but if that is the case, the dark yellow and brown would be about what I'd expect but that shade of green would be really light!

[BigDog]

My knowledge runs more towards aviation that armor but a few things if I may toss them in.

There are some period photos that do show a lighter, almost mint as opposed to olive green seen on some German AFVs. I can't remember if they were from a specific unit or factory, I know one of the patterns that had this lighter green was unit specific. Sorry to be so vague but this is from research for some skins for a WW2 aviation sim from about ten years ago.

How well does the color of the labels match what is inside. I am sure as modelers we can all relate that what is sometimes shown on labels or chips is not even remotely close to what the stuff looks like when dried. It is also a reason I mark the tops of my paint bottles with a dab of paint.

With RLM colors quality control broke down almost completely late in the war, to add to this new colors were being developed so these things can be all over the place. In other words one factories color doesn't even resemble the same color from a different factory. Did the armor stuff go through anything like this?

Stuff like this is why I try to track down period color photos as opposed to restorations that may or may not be accurate. While the period photos may vary due to conditions fading and what not they can give a "trend" if you will to work from. I also note at least on the aviation side a lot of period photos show something different from what the "experts" put forth. (I tend to side with the photos at that point).

Just a bunch of stuff to ponder and keep in mind. But still that is a really neat find and a sweet pic.

[razorboy]

This model by Kunihito~san clearly represents the green but his brown looks more late war chocolate than red-brown.

[Dane_Bramage]

That rotbraun almost seems Iron Oxide

[razorboy]

@BigDog - With RLM colors quality control broke down almost completely late in the war, to add to this new colors were being developed so these things can be all over the place. In other words one factories color doesn't even resemble the same color from a different factory. Did the armor stuff go through anything like this?

I would say probably not so much breaking down in different shades from the factory as I think that the initial production run for each of the three tone camo colors probably produced more than enough paint in relationship to the amount of armour produced post 1943. There were however, several more shades of the three color than I previously knew about! Through a bit of impromptu research I have gathered the following:

There were two shades of Dunkelgelb in use on and after February 1943. One is a shade of Dunkelgelb (Dark Yellow) and the other is Dunkelgelb Nach Muster (dark yellow after pattern). Now research using original paint orders and paint chips show that these two yellows had THREE shade variants each making 6 shade variants of Dunkelgelb/dunkelgelb nach muster. There were five shades of the olive green and four shades of the red brown.

It has always been my contention that the thinning agent probably contributed more to the change in color than anything else aside from application method. I understand that some units thinned their field applied paints with everything from turpentine to gasoline and probably worse. Application via spray gun vs. application via brush would also render a varying shade out of the same can I would think. I know that sprayed acrylics thinned with alcohol produce a totally different shade out of the same bottle than water thinned brush applied paint does.
There may have been factory variances in color but I believe that for the most part the differences arose during application.

Here is a chart detailing the colors used with corresponding RAL numbers -

[razorboy]

I would say probably not so much breaking down in different shades from the factory as I think that the initial production run for each of the three tone camo colors probably produced more than enough paint in relationship to the amount of armour produced post 1943. There were however, several more shades of the three color than I previously knew about! Through a bit of impromptu research I have gathered the following:

There were two shades of Dunkelgelb in use on and after February 1943. One is a shade of Dunkelgelb (Dark Yellow) and the other is Dunkelgelb Nach Muster (dark yellow after pattern). Now research using original paint orders and paint chips show that these two yellows had THREE shade variants each making 6 shade variants of Dunkelgelb/dunkelgelb nach muster. There were five shades of the olive green and four shades of the red brown.

It has always been my contention that the thinning agent probably contributed more to the change in color than anything else aside from application method. I understand that some units thinned their field applied paints with everything from turpentine to gasoline and probably worse. Application via spray gun vs. application via brush would also render a varying shade out of the same can I would think. I know that sprayed acrylics thinned with alcohol produce a totally different shade out of the same bottle than water thinned brush applied paint does.
There may have been factory variances in color but I believe that for the most part the differences arose during application.

I posted the RAL # and corresponding color chart HERE >

http://www.razorboyminiatures.com/tips.php

I also posted a Luftwaffe RAL# Chart for good measure.