HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
British Heritage
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > History Library > Alternate Timelines

Notices and Announcements

Alternate Timelines The great "what if's" of military history.

View Poll Results: Is the WWIII in 1946 Theory as presented Sound?
Absolutely. It is sound in all respects. 0 0%
It has some problems but the merits outweigh them. 8 14.55%
It has some merits, but the problems outweigh them. 18 32.73%
It is unworkable, even with significant help. 29 52.73%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #631  
Old 05 May 12, 10:54
hairog's Avatar
hairog hairog is offline
Major
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Appleton, WI
Posts: 1,170
hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
No you haven't.

Also, I've already posted the information on Soviet use of Enigma in the other thread. You know this because I then added a story that alerted the Soviets to this piece of info, which you thanked me for .
What I thanked you for was positive post that added to the story.

The first time I went to your source I could not find any mention of the Soviets and Enigma and quite frankly forgot about it figuring that you had just made a mistake which we all do. Now that you've mentioned it a second time it's a different matter.

I just went back now and re-read it 3 times and still there is no reference. I am the world's worst proof reader. Perhaps you could direct me to the paragraph, page... something that could aid me.
  #632  
Old 05 May 12, 10:55
hairog's Avatar
hairog hairog is offline
Major
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Appleton, WI
Posts: 1,170
hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
I had never noticed that !
Because it's not true.
  #633  
Old 05 May 12, 19:48
T. A. Gardner's Avatar
T. A. Gardner T. A. Gardner is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: T. A. Gardner
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 11,746
T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100]
T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100]
Stalling won't save you:

List your sources.
  #634  
Old 05 May 12, 19:53
hairog's Avatar
hairog hairog is offline
Major
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Appleton, WI
Posts: 1,170
hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
While not directed (this time) at me, this is typical of Hairog's responses to reasonable criticism. He dismisses it with a 'wave of the hand' and then gives zero proof or sourcing. The other typical response here is his making and argument from authority. That is, he claims expert knowledge with next to zero proof then turns around and demands his critic provide a lengthy academic proof of their own that the opposing position is correct.

Even if his critic does this Hairog will simply tell us that the sources, response, whatever, is inadequite, doesn't prove what the critic claims, or he will cherry pick the sources given for crumbs that taken out of context will support his position.
Why don't you help NN? You have endorsed his statement. Now how about helping him out with your sources.
  #635  
Old 05 May 12, 19:54
hairog's Avatar
hairog hairog is offline
Major
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Appleton, WI
Posts: 1,170
hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
Stalling won't save you:

List your sources.
Save me from what?
  #636  
Old 05 May 12, 20:28
T. A. Gardner's Avatar
T. A. Gardner T. A. Gardner is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: T. A. Gardner
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 11,746
T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100]
T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hairog View Post
Why don't you help NN? You have endorsed his statement. Now how about helping him out with your sources.
NN? Who is NN?
  #637  
Old 05 May 12, 20:43
hairog's Avatar
hairog hairog is offline
Major
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Appleton, WI
Posts: 1,170
hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99]
Nick the Noodle.
  #638  
Old 05 May 12, 21:07
T. A. Gardner's Avatar
T. A. Gardner T. A. Gardner is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: T. A. Gardner
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 11,746
T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100]
T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hairog View Post
Nick the Noodle.
Ah....
  #639  
Old 05 May 12, 21:16
TacCovert4's Avatar
TacCovert4 TacCovert4 is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
March Offensive 5 Year Service Ribbon CWiE 1939-45 Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Knight of Rome
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: On Crusade
Posts: 11,033
TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100]
TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hairog View Post
Why don't you help NN? You have endorsed his statement. Now how about helping him out with your sources.
Sources?

This coming from the man (is it man? Or woman? or Child? or Man-Child? I digress with the internal monologue) that has consistently insisted upon having a glut of source materials and 'expert' opinions on the subject, yet has been equally consistent in refusing to show them?

"If you're too much of a P to show your sources, don't demand them from anybody else. Especially if they asked you long before you started asking them."

Show us the Proof Hairog!

Show us the Proof!

Wait, he can't he doesn't have any!

Argh....internal monologue again.
__________________
Commander Chinese Forces

Lt. Dan, Company XO and sometimes Armored Car commander.
  #640  
Old 05 May 12, 22:25
hairog's Avatar
hairog hairog is offline
Major
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Appleton, WI
Posts: 1,170
hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacCovert4 View Post
Sources?

This coming from the man (is it man? Or woman? or Child? or Man-Child? I digress with the internal monologue) that has consistently insisted upon having a glut of source materials and 'expert' opinions on the subject, yet has been equally consistent in refusing to show them?

"If you're too much of a P to show your sources, don't demand them from anybody else. Especially if they asked you long before you started asking them."

Show us the Proof Hairog!

Show us the Proof!

Wait, he can't he doesn't have any!

Argh....internal monologue again.
Nice tirade filled with nothing factual.

I'm not demanding anything. I'm just trying to help Nick the Noodle. I'm sure he wants to show me. I'll be happy to take any resource at all. I've truly never heard of such a thing. Why all the hub bub.

Help him out. Be a pal. I'm sure he'd help you out as would I.

I very rarely ask for the kind of unreasonable, time wasting, demands that you seem to be consumed with. If NN has a resource then fine. I may be able to use it like he suggested for a double agent type scenario.

Why won't anyone help on this one? I thought you were all here for constructive criticism and to make this story better. Am I mistaken in you motives? Surely that is why most of you continue to post here.

What other reason could there be?

TacCovert4 Quote:
Quote:
Then your facts are Lies. You are the one claiming them to be Fact, not fiction. Therefore you obviously got them from somewhere besides your own head. However, you incessantly avoid the question by making statements like the above. I thought I had made it very simple. In classic hairog fashion I just called you a liar and I demand you prove that your facts are in fact not lies. I just called Every Single Last One of your facts, barring obvious things such as the existance of WWII level kit in the Soviet armed forces, to be blatant falsehoods.

Now prove me wrong.

Edit:

However, after taking a shower and getting ready for the gym it occurs to me that I'm being too hard on you. After all, it is a work of Fiction, is it not? And as such it is quite enjoyable. After all, I'm a big fan of the sci-fi genre, which has at its core a suspension of reality. And so, I shall enjoy reading your story from within the point of view of the sci-fi genre. I guess you can take this as your apology for my incessantly demanding sources. After all, those are only needed for a 'counterfactual', and this is 'fiction'....which is a big difference, since a counterfactual is a cogent argument that something really could have happened that way by making a small change.

I thought you were were over this BS.
Sponsored Links

  #641  
Old 06 May 12, 00:33
The Exorcist's Avatar
The Exorcist The Exorcist is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon CWiE 1939-45 Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 18,944
The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hairog View Post
I thought you were were over this BS.
How is anyone going to get "over" your BS when you vomit it forth in endless waves?

Measure up to your own standards or its all for nothing.
__________________
History is written byt the winners,
re-written by malcontents
and under-written by political opportunists.
-The Exorcist


  #642  
Old 06 May 12, 00:49
hairog's Avatar
hairog hairog is offline
Major
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Appleton, WI
Posts: 1,170
hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99] hairog is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exorcist View Post
How is anyone going to get "over" your BS when you vomit it forth in endless waves?

Measure up to your own standards or its all for nothing.
For you it's nothing.
  #643  
Old 06 May 12, 01:03
T. A. Gardner's Avatar
T. A. Gardner T. A. Gardner is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: T. A. Gardner
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 11,746
T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100]
T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100] T. A. Gardner is a pillar of the community [1100]
Quote:
However, after taking a shower and getting ready for the gym it occurs to me that I'm being too hard on you. After all, it is a work of Fiction, is it not? And as such it is quite enjoyable. After all, I'm a big fan of the sci-fi genre, which has at its core a suspension of reality. And so, I shall enjoy reading your story from within the point of view of the sci-fi genre. I guess you can take this as your apology for my incessantly demanding sources. After all, those are only needed for a 'counterfactual', and this is 'fiction'....which is a big difference, since a counterfactual is a cogent argument that something really could have happened that way by making a small change.
You are quite right Tac... I have been taking this the wrong way too. It really is on the level of those Harry Turtledove stories like Geronimo being a fighter pilot flying a biplane or the Confederates getting AK 47's.

I'll start just taking it as a pure work of fiction that it is. No need to explain anything... Everything works by PFM (Pure F**ing Magic). That will be a lot less stressful.....
  #644  
Old 06 May 12, 01:48
TacCovert4's Avatar
TacCovert4 TacCovert4 is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
March Offensive 5 Year Service Ribbon CWiE 1939-45 Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Knight of Rome
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: On Crusade
Posts: 11,033
TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100]
TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
You are quite right Tac... I have been taking this the wrong way too. It really is on the level of those Harry Turtledove stories like Geronimo being a fighter pilot flying a biplane or the Confederates getting AK 47's.

I'll start just taking it as a pure work of fiction that it is. No need to explain anything... Everything works by PFM (Pure F**ing Magic). That will be a lot less stressful.....
You know what, we completely forgot about the Confederates. If they got, and were manufacturing their own, AK47s by 1865, then in 1946 their standard infantry weapon could very well be a pulse laser in the 40 watt range. I certainly don't want to think about what a 100 year jump in weapons tech would do for their artillery, or ships. Or aircraft.....the Libertarian-run CSA might have F-35s by 1946.....kind of sweeps all the Soviet advantages right away, doesn't it?

(Once you open the bottle of PFM........ )
__________________
Commander Chinese Forces

Lt. Dan, Company XO and sometimes Armored Car commander.
  #645  
Old 06 May 12, 02:05
Full Monty's Avatar
Full Monty Full Monty is offline
General of the Forums
EU
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Dick Barton
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Essex
Posts: 26,433
Full Monty has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by hairog View Post
I very rarely ask for the kind of unreasonable, time wasting, demands that you seem to be consumed with. If NN has a resource then fine. I may be able to use it like he suggested for a double agent type scenario.
As I'm sure you're aware the Soviet designed 'Fialka' (violet) machines that were designed at the back-end of the 50s were a major upgrade on the old Engima-type encrypters. Prior to that it's unclear as to what the Soviets were using. The early M-series encrypters were inferior to the Enigma machines so it's possible that Soviet Intelligence used Enigma. However, whatever they used it seems probable that Bletchley Park would be able to read messages sent pretty easily.

p.s. I asked about the capability you claimed for Soviet air strikes on airfields in The Midlands and North of Britain. I appreciate you may have missed it given the furore over code-breaking and sources but I would still like you to give me a firm answer .... or direct me to the post where you've previously addressed this issue.
__________________
New medicine, nasty side effects.
Closed Thread

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 14:58.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.