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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Warfare Through the Ages > The Medieval Era

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The Medieval Era Discussions on Knights and Crusaders, and all things medieval!

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  #16  
Old 04 May 12, 12:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
Hmmm,... there ar no previous "rulers" since Rome that could claim to have the backing/support/loyalty of all of modern England (well, most of it) until Aethelstan, imo. Others followed but he has the strongest claim to the title of first.
I suppose I must agree to disagree, I can maybe accept him as "first King" but not as "first true King" (which I thought at first this was about).

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Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
Vortigern and the Romans, btw, were not Anglo-Saxon, nor were Cnut or William. The last two may have been Kings of England but they were not English (Anglo-Saxon) kings
Nationality is not relevant to the title of King of England. Besides royalty usually (during history) has married other royalty over time and an identification with a specific nationality becomes blurred.
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  #17  
Old 04 May 12, 14:09
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A rough guide is shown in the map. Alfred performed well (from a nadir of Island in the Marshes of Alderney - from memory) to stalemating the Danes at the line shown on the map - about 50% of current day England.

His son Edgar pushed the line back to the Humber and Danes South of there submitted to him. However North of the Humber was a mess, with the Vikings in York, a separate kingdom of Starthclyde and the rump of the Old Saxon Kingdom of Northumbria and the Scots all slaughtering each other.

As you can see Athelstan completed the unification of England, hammered the Scots (as usual) and was acknowledged as an overlord (whatever that meant) by the Welsh.

England would never be as large again. And although, foreigners in the form of Sveyn and Knut, Hathaknut, Harold Harefoot would rule the centralised kingdom survived - passing to Edward the Confessor and Harold Godwinson.

William the Norman, was unable to hold the hold the North and burned and destroyed it to prevent a successful Danish invasion. He permanently lost the Lothian region (ie from the current English border to Edwin's Burgh (Edinburgh)).

So much for the mighty Norman - also lost was the overlordship of Wales which slipped from William's grasp.
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  #18  
Old 04 May 12, 15:04
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Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
Nick,... in Offa's day (late 8th C) there were still a King of Wessex, King of Northumbria, etc. Offa was certainly never the King of England as he never had overlordship over all of the country. Even the Chronicle refers to other kings during during Offa's rule as King of Mercia (as do other websites covering the topic).

Here's one:

http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/.../egbertwx.html

Offa was able to build an expensive defensive line against the Welsh, and not have to worry about being attacked in another direction. Sounds like he had more power than Alfred over his neighbours.

Technically ∆thelstan is the first king of England.

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Originally Posted by Scupio View Post


A rough guide is shown in the map. Alfred performed well (from a nadir of Island in the Marshes of Alderney - from memory) to stalemating the Danes at the line shown on the map - about 50% of current day England.

His son Edgar pushed the line back to the Humber and Danes South of there submitted to him. However North of the Humber was a mess, with the Vikings in York, a separate kingdom of Starthclyde and the rump of the Old Saxon Kingdom of Northumbria and the Scots all slaughtering each other.

As you can see Athelstan completed the unification of England, hammered the Scots (as usual) and was acknowledged as an overlord (whatever that meant) by the Welsh.

England would never be as large again. And although, foreigners in the form of Sveyn and Knut, Hathaknut, Harold Harefoot would rule the centralised kingdom survived - passing to Edward the Confessor and Harold Godwinson.

William the Norman, was unable to hold the hold the North and burned and destroyed it to prevent a successful Danish invasion. He permanently lost the Lothian region (ie from the current English border to Edwin's Burgh (Edinburgh)).

So much for the mighty Norman - also lost was the overlordship of Wales which slipped from William's grasp.
What he said. +1 when I get the chance .
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  #19  
Old 04 May 12, 18:44
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Originally Posted by Scupio View Post
...

England would never be as large again. And although, foreigners in the form of Sveyn and Knut, Hathaknut, Harold Harefoot would rule the centralised kingdom survived - passing to Edward the Confessor and Harold Godwinson.

William the Norman, was unable to hold the hold the North and burned and destroyed it to prevent a successful Danish invasion. He permanently lost the Lothian region (ie from the current English border to Edwin's Burgh (Edinburgh)).... lost Wales
Excellent post. Aethelstan seems to be the man.

Is that map yours,... I wonder if one is available commercially?
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