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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > History Library > Orders of Battle

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Orders of Battle Orders-of-battle, TO&E's, and related information on who fought where and what they brought to the battle.

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  #1  
Old 26 Apr 12, 19:20
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7th ID to reactivate

HQ only

http://www.kxly.com/news/northwest/A...1/-/index.html

http://www.defense.gov/releases/rele...eleaseid=15218
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  #2  
Old 28 Apr 12, 22:54
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Wait for it...

Reality will be eventually be sinking in, with the Div HQ getting more involved with the brigades than expected...Next thing you will know, 7 Inf Div will fully stood up and deployable (HQ including!)

I give it 3 years for reality to sink in. Maybe less, if a new military crisis hits Asia.
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  #3  
Old 28 Apr 12, 23:53
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Were you aware the Army was using the 7th Infantry Division HQ and the 24th Infantry Division HQ to run six National Guard Brigades? There was no support units or fires brigades. It gave the Regular Army an excuse to create two new Major General slots that could have gone to National Guard Generals. In the past the National Guard Divisions in multiple state would have to divide up the Division HQ and rotate the command of the division. This eliminates that need.

What will they do with the National Guard Brigades now? They already have to draw down the number of soldiers in the Army.

Pruitt
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  #4  
Old 01 May 12, 15:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt AFB View Post
Wait for it...

Reality will be eventually be sinking in, with the Div HQ getting more involved with the brigades than expected...Next thing you will know, 7 Inf Div will fully stood up and deployable (HQ including!)
Unlikely given the current move to downsize the overall size of the Army with the end of operations in Iraq and the draw down in Afghanistan. It'd also be very unlikely that they'd reduce 2nd Infantry to brigade (+) size to reactive 7th Infantry.

A more likely development would be that rest of 2nd Infantry returns to CONUS and 1/2nd Infantry is reflagged as a separate brigade, as happened with parts of 1st Infantry and 1st Armored with the drawdown in Germany.
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  #5  
Old 01 May 12, 17:08
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The main problem with the Second Infantry Division is its Div HQ is in Korea. To transfer it out might send a message to the North Koreans that we are pulling out of South Korea. If you think this situation is bizarre with three of four brigades at Fort Lewis, look at the 25th Infantry Division Brigade in Alaska! Having a 10th Mountain Division Brigade in the Piney Hills of Louisiana is also kind of special.

The Army could have just appointed a two star general in command of Fort Lewis, but no, they wanted a new slot open. I bet the old base commander was just a Brigadier General. I bet they keep the one star base commander slot and the two star 7thINFDIV slot. With troop cuts coming what is an extra two star slot more or less?

Keep in mind that the 2nd Division at one time had five Brigades. One was stood down and the 5th Brigade (Stryker) took the 2nd Brigade's place.

Pruitt
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  #6  
Old 01 May 12, 17:48
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The main problem with the Second Infantry Division is its Div HQ is in Korea. To transfer it out might send a message to the North Koreans that we are pulling out of South Korea.
This is the only reason why its currently the way it is. Otherwise the system used in Europe before (a division's worth of separate brigade assigned to a corps headquarters) and the new system being introduced now (rotational units) would have been introduced in Korea a long time ago. Even so, it would probably be easy enough to similarly establish a corps headquarters (X Corps?) under Eighth Army in the place of Headquarters, 2nd Infantry and still reflag 1/2nd Infantry as a separate brigade (172nd Infantry Brigade?). That way you would still have an intermediate command if you ever needed to inflate the forces in Korea. As it stands, with US Army, Japan now blended with I Corps (Forward), there already exists a viable method for rushing large amounts of Army forces into the region.

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If you think this situation is bizarre with three of four brigades at Fort Lewis, look at the 25th Infantry Division Brigade in Alaska!
Two brigades in Alaska, to take over from what had been a separate brigade in Alaska (1/6th Infantry and then 172nd Infantry Brigade).

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Having a 10th Mountain Division Brigade in the Piney Hills of Louisiana is also kind of special.
If the US Army makes the smart decision to go back to a triangular "division" (as if Divisions are really what used to be under the new brigade-centric deployment model) to meet the drawdown requirements, then that oddity might be rectified hehe.

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The Army could have just appointed a two star general in command of Fort Lewis, but no, they wanted a new slot open. I bet the old base commander was just a Brigadier General. I bet they keep the one star base commander slot and the two star 7thINFDIV slot. With troop cuts coming what is an extra two star slot more or less?
The garrison commander for Joint Base Lewis-McChord is the commander of I Corps. They could have just created a subordinate administrative office under I Corps or some sort of Headquarters (Rear), 2nd Infantry Division, but it was clearly far too enticing to bring back a division title.

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Keep in mind that the 2nd Division at one time had five Brigades. One was stood down and the 5th Brigade (Stryker) took the 2nd Brigade's place.
Only for 13 months between April 2007, when 5/2nd Infantry was activated, and May 2008. In May 2008, 2/2nd Infantry was inactivated and was reflagged as 4/4th Infantry. 5/2nd Infantry was reflagged as 2/2nd Infantry in July 2010. On the subject of 5th Brigades, there had been a plan to activated 5th and 6th Brigades, 25th Infantry, but this was canned in 2006 with the decision to return 1st Infantry to CONUS. 1st Cavalry Division's DIVARTY also formed a provisional 5th Brigade in Iraq between 2004 and 2005.

It would all be a lot easier if the US Army just decided to overhaul the designation conventions and apply division lineages to brigades, corps lineages to intermediate headquarters (called divisions or corps), and field army lineages to broad area headquarters (called either corps or field armies). This would allow many more lineages to come back into service in a way that is functional with regards to the new brigade centric model.
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  #7  
Old 01 May 12, 18:46
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I would be glad to hear the Army will go back to a triangular structure. When they went to the present Brigade Combat scheme, they cut back all National Guard Brigades to two combat battalions. Yet when they were in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan they all had three such battalions (Infantry and Armor, for the uninitiated). Three combat battalions would also mean another fires battery and another Cavalry Troop.

Naturally they will try to prevent increasing the size of the National Guard.

I was under the impression that we had a Corps HQ in Japan, (I Corps Forward) did they kill it? I have seen different tales about whether the Brigade in Korea has KATUSA's attached. What is the latest word?

Pruitt
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Old 01 May 12, 19:48
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I was under the impression that we had a Corps HQ in Japan, (I Corps Forward) did they kill it?
You are correct. I just meant to point out that the commander of I Corps (Foward) is dual hatted as the commander of US Army, Japan (USARJ). This replaced for previous arrangement by which the USARJ commander was dual-hatted as the commander of the 9th Theater Support Command, which was inactivated when I Corps (Foward) stood up.

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I have seen different tales about whether the Brigade in Korea has KATUSA's attached. What is the latest word?
The KATUSA program is still going strong, so I would imagine that 1/2nd Infantry has some assigned to it.
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Old 06 Oct 13, 01:28
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I wonder if any thought has been given to having the Stryker BCTs at Ft. Lewis merged into a division to be designated 3rd Armored Division (Stryker)?
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Old 11 Oct 13, 16:37
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I wonder if any thought has been given to having the Stryker BCTs at Ft. Lewis merged into a division to be designated 3rd Armored Division (Stryker)?
Why would it be an armored division? It doesn't have any armor.
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Old 14 Oct 13, 19:32
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If I'm not mistaken the 101st is still called an airborne division even though its troops aren't trained in parachute operations. The Stryker is an armored vehicle even if its not as heavily armored as the M-1 or Bradley. Also the 2nd Cavalry RGT has Stryker vehicles and is still called armored.
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Old 14 Oct 13, 19:50
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The 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment was originally a heavy unit with M-1 tanks in Europe. Then they made it a ACR (Light) so it would be easy to move by air with the XVIII Airborne Corps. I remember seeing it on flatcars coming back from overseas South of DeQuincy, LA. Notice it was still being moved by rail and ship?

If you want a different kind of name, reflag them the 1st Cavalry Division. Then it would not matter how heavy or light the Division is. We can rename the former 1st Cav units in Fort Hood the 2nd Armor Division.

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