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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Napoleonic Era

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Napoleonic Era Discuss the many wars fought around the globe around the time of Napoleon. This forum is dedicated to the memory of Ben Weider.

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  #1  
Old 15 Apr 12, 07:36
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The Sunken Lane

Not much has changed since 1815 .
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  #2  
Old 15 Apr 12, 08:02
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Great pictures. Thank you for sharing!
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Old 15 Apr 12, 08:30
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Ah, you've been back recently
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Old 15 Apr 12, 11:01
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Originally Posted by Major Sennef View Post
Ah, you've been back recently
Every Easter for around 9 days for the annual visit to see all the in-laws. This year we stayed in Sombreffe. No free time to meet anyone this year , but hopefully the next .





http://www.patrimoineculturel.org/in...page=sombreffe
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Old 15 Apr 12, 12:20
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For the uneducated among you I'll translate...
wot eggzactly 'appened in this 'ere...
sunken road?

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  #6  
Old 16 Apr 12, 05:11
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I would rather say "a sunken lane".

This one is, if I am right, near Papelotte farm, on the eastern part of the battlefield, of just outside it.

But it gives a very good impression of how these lanes looked like in 1815 (apart from the cobblestones, who were still rare at the time).

The real one, east of the Brussels-Charleroi road nowadays.


The real one, west of the road (on the horizon), between the lion mound and the right edge of the picture :

As you can see the "slope" still exists, even if it is less high after the building of the mound.

Last edited by Dominique T.; 16 Apr 12 at 12:20..
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  #7  
Old 16 Apr 12, 06:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominique T. View Post
I would rather say "a sunken lane".

This one is, if I am right, near Papelotte farm, on the eastern part of the battlefield, of just outside it.

But it gives a very good impression of how these lanes looked like in 1815 (apart from the cobblestones, who were still rare at the time).

The real one, east of the Brussels-Charleroi road nowadays.

Your reply is misleading to say the least . Your real sunken lane is but the start of the route.
It shows that you have never visited this part of the battlefield or you would not have made such a silly and fallacious response.

You'll find that if you travel down the road a bit further in the picture shown above, then you will find that the lane becomes sunken and turns back towards the main road.
That is where the pictures in the OP were taken.

I had the priveledge of being with the MajorSennef and Stratego on the battlefield tour, and I took the photos where we were told the Cuirassiers became a tad unstuck.

Please make sure you know what you are talking about before calling someone a liar. Many thanks.
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Old 16 Apr 12, 07:31
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No need to be aggressive ! I never called you a liar, just corrected your error !

Or you must be joking !

The real sunken lane as such doesn't exist anymore since the lion mound was built in 1823-26 ! (whatever you might have been told)

I've visited the battlefield hundreds of times and organised visits for a lot of groups.

No cuirassier ever got that far to the east ! Very few cavalry -if any - attacked east of the road, and the pictures you show are taken more than 1.200 meters east of the Brussels - Charleroi road !

Quote:
we were told the Cuirassiers became a tad
Exactly, you were told something during the 40-minutes visit for the common tourist. (I've spent weeks on the battlefield.)

Don't know what else they may have told you...

Study the map, read a few books on the subject, and you'll understand.

And yes, I do know what I am talking about.
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Old 16 Apr 12, 09:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominique T. View Post
No need to be aggressive ! I never called you a liar, just corrected your error !

Or you must be joking !

The real sunken lane as such doesn't exist anymore since the lion mound was built in 1823-26 ! (whatever you might have been told)

I've visited the battlefield hundreds of times and organised visits for a lot of groups.

No cuirassier ever got that far to the east ! Very few cavalry -if any - attacked east of the road, and the pictures you show are taken more than 1.200 meters east of the Brussels - Charleroi road !



Exactly, you were told something during the 40-minutes visit for the common tourist. (I've spent weeks on the battlefield.)

Don't know what else they may have told you...

Study the map, read a few books on the subject, and you'll understand.

And yes, I do know what I am talking about.
You did not correct my error because there was none regarding the geography.
You did call me a liar because you stated that my photo's were of a sunken lane, not the real one.
Then you state you have produced a real photo of the road, when in fact it is but another length of the same road ????

As an expert on the battle, what is odd about the first picture you posted?
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Old 16 Apr 12, 09:57
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[QUOTE=Nick the Noodle;2221209]Then you state you have produced a real photo of the road, when in fact it is but another length of the same road ????
[QUOTE]

Yes, but, as I said, 1.200 meters away, where that part of the lane played no essential role in the battle.

I don't understand how you can react so heavily just because I mentioned that. Correcting an error is not the same thing a calling someone a liar !

And I confirm what I said : no French cuirassier ever crossed that lane on the place you photographed, because there was none around.
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Old 16 Apr 12, 12:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominique T. View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
Then you state you have produced a real photo of the road, when in fact it is but another length of the same road ????
Yes, but, as I said, 1.200 meters away, where that part of the lane played no essential role in the battle.

I don't understand how you can react so heavily just because I mentioned that. Correcting an error is not the same thing a calling someone a liar !

And I confirm what I said : no French cuirassier ever crossed that lane on the place you photographed, because there was none around.
Time for a geography lesson .

From the visitors centre car park you can turn right to head towards the N5 crossroads.
At the crossroads, you can turn left and head north towards Brussels, or turn right and head south towards Charleroi.
Alternatively, you can cross straight across and join what is the first section of the 'Sunken Lane'.
It follows a circular route southwards back towards the N5 at the Belle Alliance, forming a D shape with the main road.
Your first photo is looking at the furthest point East, and the road at that point is then heading south. It then continues to bend to the left, becoming sunken, hence the name, until almost the point it reaches the N5 again.
The sunken part is where my photos were taken.

You stated your web image was the real Sunken Lane and more than implied my photos were not.
If you had visited the battlefield as many times as you have stated, surely you would have known that my photos were genuine, and that your image and my photos were part of the same route?

While I have not visited the battlefield hundreds of times, I do visit the area every year.
My wife was born in Waterloo, and my eldest sons godmother lives at Quatre Bras.
Further, my In-Laws are like a rash all over that area, and thus I have a very good understanding of the area in question.

PS : If you going to post huge photos, please put them in spoilers.
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Last edited by Nick the Noodle; 16 Apr 12 at 12:16..
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Old 16 Apr 12, 12:33
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You are right about the spoiler, I put the large images there.

Now for the rest. The sunken road so often referred to and that played a role in breaking the momentum of the French cavalry is only the part West of the Brussels -Charleroi road and it exists no more since 1826.

On the east of that road, of course, it's the same track, but there

- on the first 800 m east it was not that deep, just the bushes were a nuisance for the French infantry attacks (d'Erlon) For that reason, it is never referred to as "sunken lane".
- there were no French cavalry attacks in that sector, certainly no cuirassiers, as you say.

I
Quote:
f you had visited the battlefield as many times as you have stated, surely you would have known that my photos were genuine, and that your image and my photos were part of the same route?
I never said that you pictures were not genuine, I just said that they were to far to the east. Of course, it's a sunken lane, but not the one (at least not the part) where the cavalry attacks took place.
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Old 16 Apr 12, 12:48
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Red line = sunken lane (1815)

Blue arrows = French Cavalry attacks

Blue circle = where you took you pictures.

Yellow arrow = the 1200 m distance

Alison's map:
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Old 16 Apr 12, 12:53
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La Belle Alliance was at the centre of the French army at Waterloo.
The Sunken lane would have acted as a natural defensive barrier for French troops to the East of La Belle.
Any retreating French cavalry would have severe difficulties crossing that barrier.


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Old 16 Apr 12, 13:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominique T. View Post


Red line = sunken lane (1815)

Blue arrows = French Cavalry attacks

Blue circle = where you took you pictures.

Yellow arrow = the 1200 m distance

Alison's map:
I see where you are coming from .
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