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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > History Library > Orders of Battle

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Orders of Battle Orders-of-battle, TO&E's, and related information on who fought where and what they brought to the battle.

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  #1  
Old 23 Mar 12, 16:20
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Tips on making your own force structure?

So I'm kind of basing a structure for the "Naval Infantry" in the Sci Fi Wargame on here, and I don't have a whole lot of experience in military force structures, although I have researched them. I'll show what I have mine as, and if you more experienced folks have any suggestions or see any errors, just throw them out there.

Oh, one last thing-some of the numbers are pretty high, because the populations are huge, and the enemy aliens are pretty grandiose. Also, I sort of "did what I wanted" in some aspects.

Regimental Corps - 4 Regiments, 120,000

Naval Infantry Regiment - 30,000 (the Regiment is the most prominent unit in my structure, so I put them at the top, technically)

Division - 10,000 (two Divisions to a Regiment)

Naval Infantry Expeditionary Unit - 5,000 (2 per Regiment, not under Division)


[From Division] Brigade - 5,000 (3 per Division)

[From Brigade & NEU] Battalion - 1,000 (5 per Brigade/NEU)

Company - 100 (10 per Battalion)

Platoon - 50 (2 per Company]

Squad - 10 (5 per Platoon)

The NEU is technically a Brigade, however it is more independent than the Brigade of the NID (Nav Inf Division).
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  #2  
Old 02 Apr 12, 20:15
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Working with nice even numbers makes things easier but isn't realistic at all. I've been working out my own, I'll show you what I got when I finish it up to the Divisional level (which could take a while ).
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Old 02 Apr 12, 20:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destroyer25 View Post
Working with nice even numbers makes things easier but isn't realistic at all. I've been working out my own, I'll show you what I got when I finish it up to the Divisional level (which could take a while ).
Traditionally: Army ORBATS (Orders of Battle) are based in the figure 3- at least following the British Commonwealth organizational charts and, I suspect ,the U.S. and Russian Organisations are similar.

So-disregarding H.Q. and support elements- there are 3 Sections (Squads to you) to a Platoon. 3 Platoons to a company. 4 Rifle Companies to a Battalion (There is always an exception !) 3 Battalions to a Brigade, 3 Brigades to a Division ("Regiments", as such, are ceremonial titles only within the British system), and 3 Divisions to a Corps (but not invariably!).

Armies may consist of a number of Corps.

The rule of 3 at times seems to become a tactical template.Thus, in the advance, you may well have two sections "up" with the third in depth, similarly in the defence.
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Old 02 Apr 12, 23:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destroyer25 View Post
Working with nice even numbers makes things easier but isn't realistic at all. I've been working out my own, I'll show you what I got when I finish it up to the Divisional level (which could take a while ).
Quote:
Originally Posted by BELGRAVE View Post
Traditionally: Army ORBATS (Orders of Battle) are based in the figure 3- at least following the British Commonwealth organizational charts and, I suspect ,the U.S. and Russian Organisations are similar.

So-disregarding H.Q. and support elements- there are 3 Sections (Squads to you) to a Platoon. 3 Platoons to a company. 4 Rifle Companies to a Battalion (There is always an exception !) 3 Battalions to a Brigade, 3 Brigades to a Division ("Regiments", as such, are ceremonial titles only within the British system), and 3 Divisions to a Corps (but not invariably!).

Armies may consist of a number of Corps.

The rule of 3 at times seems to become a tactical template.Thus, in the advance, you may well have two sections "up" with the third in depth, similarly in the defence.
Thank you for the info, mates!

BELGRAVE-I do believe that the rule of 3 is used here. But that's back in the Great Recession of 2011, not the Human-Zetan War of 2130 something!
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Old 02 Apr 12, 23:22
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I might recommend you consider the term "Legion" instead if "regiment". Along non-serious lines, since this is space travel Infantry, look into the "Sacred Band of Thebes"...

Pruitt
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Old 02 Apr 12, 23:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BELGRAVE View Post
Traditionally: Army ORBATS (Orders of Battle) are based in the figure 3- at least following the British Commonwealth organizational charts and, I suspect ,the U.S. and Russian Organisations are similar.

So-disregarding H.Q. and support elements- there are 3 Sections (Squads to you) to a Platoon. 3 Platoons to a company. 4 Rifle Companies to a Battalion (There is always an exception !) 3 Battalions to a Brigade, 3 Brigades to a Division ("Regiments", as such, are ceremonial titles only within the British system), and 3 Divisions to a Corps (but not invariably!).

Armies may consist of a number of Corps.

The rule of 3 at times seems to become a tactical template.Thus, in the advance, you may well have two sections "up" with the third in depth, similarly in the defence.
The rule of 3 is pretty textbook. Based on the the two upfront, 1 in reserve principle. It also simplifies things. I don't believe USA or Germany have 4 Rifle Coys to a Battalion though, 3+1 a Heavy Weapons Coy maybe, but generally the rifle components are always in 3s, whereas the support elements are in 1s and 2s.
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Old 03 Apr 12, 00:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
I might recommend you consider the term "Legion" instead if "regiment". Along non-serious lines, since this is space travel Infantry, look into the "Sacred Band of Thebes"...

Pruitt
Ah yes, the Sacred Band, what a..."happy"...group...

Good thought-though, that might make more sense with the Dominion of New Byzantium, however, since it's a Greek/Byzantine type Dominion.
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Old 03 Apr 12, 00:41
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The US once had six companies per Mech Infantry Battalion! It did not last long! Right now most "Heavy" Battalions have two Battalions of "fighters. The Brigade has a Fires Company and a Cavalry Battalion of two troops of Cavalry and one UAV Troop. Where they once went by "threes" many small units are divided into twos! Secretary Rummy had to create enough Brigades to set up a rotation to the Middle East. Units in Iraq and Afghanistan were set up in the old triad organization. Last I heard all active units in the CONUS are in smaller TOE's. The National Guard never really had a choice, they were arbitrarily set up small.

For instance the 256th Infantry Brigade (LANG) once had an armor battalion (1/156th Armor), two Mech Infantry Battalions in the 2nd 3rd/156th INF, an Artillery Battalion 1st/141st ART, Washington Artillery), a Recon Troop of the 108th Cavalry and an Engineer Battalion. It has since been converted into a "Lite" brigade.

I would not recommend the present confusing US set up.

Pruitt
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Old 03 Apr 12, 01:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
The US once had six companies per Mech Infantry Battalion! It did not last long! Right now most "Heavy" Battalions have two Battalions of "fighters. The Brigade has a Fires Company and a Cavalry Battalion of two troops of Cavalry and one UAV Troop. Where they once went by "threes" many small units are divided into twos! Secretary Rummy had to create enough Brigades to set up a rotation to the Middle East. Units in Iraq and Afghanistan were set up in the old triad organization. Last I heard all active units in the CONUS are in smaller TOE's. The National Guard never really had a choice, they were arbitrarily set up small.

For instance the 256th Infantry Brigade (LANG) once had an armor battalion (1/156th Armor), two Mech Infantry Battalions in the 2nd 3rd/156th INF, an Artillery Battalion 1st/141st ART, Washington Artillery), a Recon Troop of the 108th Cavalry and an Engineer Battalion. It has since been converted into a "Lite" brigade.

I would not recommend the present confusing US set up.

Pruitt
It is indeed confusing-I keep seeing all this stuff about converting to Brigade Combat Teams and all this stuff but I have no idea what the source is talking about so I just based mine off a perhaps more traditional structure.

Besides, don't ALL futuristic movies, books, etc always have some things which return to the past? Like lightsabers, and energy swords.
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Old 03 Apr 12, 14:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
The US once had six companies per Mech Infantry Battalion! It did not last long! Right now most "Heavy" Battalions have two Battalions of "fighters. The Brigade has a Fires Company and a Cavalry Battalion of two troops of Cavalry and one UAV Troop. Where they once went by "threes" many small units are divided into twos! Secretary Rummy had to create enough Brigades to set up a rotation to the Middle East. Units in Iraq and Afghanistan were set up in the old triad organization. Last I heard all active units in the CONUS are in smaller TOE's. The National Guard never really had a choice, they were arbitrarily set up small.

For instance the 256th Infantry Brigade (LANG) once had an armor battalion (1/156th Armor), two Mech Infantry Battalions in the 2nd 3rd/156th INF, an Artillery Battalion 1st/141st ART, Washington Artillery), a Recon Troop of the 108th Cavalry and an Engineer Battalion. It has since been converted into a "Lite" brigade.

I would not recommend the present confusing US set up.

Pruitt
Yes, I despise current military organizational structure. Things were so much more simple in WWII.
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Old 03 Apr 12, 15:55
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Originally Posted by Destroyer25 View Post
Yes, I despise current military organizational structure. Things were so much more simple in WWII.
It seems like that-organize into Divisions, a bunch of Divisions is a Corps, a bunch of Corps is an Army, a bunch of Armies is a Theatre.
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Old 10 Apr 12, 01:15
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Well I have extensively made my own OOBs. They have come along ways sense my early attempts (a platoon had like 64 men with 4 platoons for a company of 256...).

Here's a WW2ish infantry battalion (foot)
Battalion HQ -25 personnel
-6 officers, 19 EN

HHC -195 men (6 officers, 15 WO, 174 EN)
Co HQ -1 officer, 4 EN
Communications Platoon -25 personnel (1 officer, 2 WO, 22 EN)
-HQ section 1 officer, 3 EN
-Phone section 1 WO, 9 EN (3 phone teams)
-Radio section 1 WO, 10 EN (5 pack radios)
Administrative Section (Mail, Clerical, Pay, ect) -24 men (2 WO, 22 EN)
Support Platoon (Supply & Maintenance) -40 men (1 officer, 2 WO, 37 EN)
Medical Detachment -12 men (1 officer, 3 WO, 8 EN)
Field kitchen Detachment -21 men (6 WO, 15 EN)
Heavy Mortar Platoon -32 men (1 officer, 31 EN, 4x 125mm Mortars) 6
Anti Tank Gun Platoon -36 men (1 officer, 35 EN, 4 75mm ATG) 5

4x Rifle Companys (6 officers, 1 WO, 163 EN)
HQ -10 men (2 officers, 8 EN)
Medical Section -5 men (1 WO, 4 EN)
3x Rifle platoons -39 men (each, 1 officer, 36 EN)
-HQ -6 (1 officer, 5 EN) -2 men operate a AT rocket launcher
-3x Squads -11 EN
Weapons Platoon (1 Officer, 43 EN)
-HQ -6 (1 officer, 3 EN) -2 men operate a AT rocket launcher
-MG Squad -16 men (3x MG teams)
-Mortar Squad -16 men (2 mortar teams -80mm)

Battalion Totals
Total manpower: 900 men
Officers: 36
Warrant Officers: 19
Enlisted Men: 845

Light MGs: 44
Medium MGs: 12
Anti Tank Rocket launchers: 20
Medium Mortars: 8
Heavy Mortars: 4
Anti Tank Guns: 4
Radios: 28

(I have a habit of making my forces above platoon level multiplies of 5...)

And Here's a Armored Infantry Battalion of the same time frame.

Battalion HQ
-6x Officers & 19 EN

HHC -135 men (5 Officers, 16 WO, 114 EN)
Co HQ -5
Coms Platoon -32 (1 Officer, 2 WO, 29 EN)
-HQ -5
-Phone -11 (2x teams)
-Radio -16 (5x teams)
Medical Detachment -15 (2 Officers, 3 WO, 10 EN)
Field kitchen -23 (7 WO, 16 EN)
Administrative -28 (4 WO, 24 EN)
Heavy Mortar Platoon -32 (1 Officer, 31 EN)

Support Co (Supply and Maint.) 100 men (4 officers, 7 WO, 89 EN)
HQ -10 men
Med Section -4 men (WO, 3 EN)
Supply Ptln -40 men (Officer, 2 WO, 37 EN)
Maint. Ptln -46 men (Officer, 4 WO, 41 EN)

4x Rifle Company's -210 men (6 officer, 1 WO, 203 EN, 24 APCs, 1 Car, 2 Mtcy)
HQ -10
Medical Sec -5
3x Rifle Platoons -45 men (1 officer, 44 EN, 4 APCs)
-HQ -9 men (platoon HQ has a 20mm Auto gun and a AT rocket launcher)
-3x Rifle Squads -12 men
Weapons platoon -60 men (1 officer, 59 EN, 10 APCs)
-HQ - 8 (platoon HQ has a 20mm Auto gun and a AT rocket launcher)
-Mun Section -3
-2x MG Squads -12 men each
-Mortar Section -9 men (2x 80mm)
-Cannon Section -8 men (2x 75mm armed APCs)
-Anti Aircraft Section -8 men (2 x 2x20mm Armed APCs)

Battalion Totals
Total manpower: 1,100 men
Officers: 39
Warrant Officers: 27
Enlisted Men: 1034

Light MGs: ~151
Medium MGs: 16
Anti Tank Rocket launchers: 20
Medium Mortars: 8
Heavy Mortars: 4
75mm Howitzers: 8
20mm Autocannon: 16
20mm AA guns: 8
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Old 28 Dec 12, 23:28
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You might want to maybe look at the Navy Landing Party Manual...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...JpQAUC5iMfvSHA
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Old 07 Apr 13, 11:30
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The rule of 3 is usually a safe bet to work with althouth the American Airborne was somewhat different in WW2. Best bet is to build a Legion (read Falkenburgs Legion if you can get a copy somewhere: was a GREAT SF combat series).

Legion (or Division)---> HQ Elements
2-3 Regiment Infantry---> HQ Elements + Support
3 Battalion---> HQ Elements + Support
3 Company---> HQ Elements
1 Weapons Company--->HQ Elements
(Both company types are 3 platoons with HQ and are often
cross attached)
1 Regiment Artillery---> HQ + Support
4 Battalion---> HQ + Support + 3 gun batteries of 3-6 guns ea
(3 are usually attached to support 1 Regiment with 1 of heavier
guns for general supportof the Legin as needed)

Transport
Logistics
Communications
Aviation (if needed although Marine units usually are supported by Navy
assets)
Medical

This configuration allows for a commander to cross attach units based on combat mission requirements. Units of same types train together to become expert in their particular skills then second tier training would integrate the next level of weapons support followed by third tier training of joint operations with all arms. Usually a higher HQ an augment a lower unit with specialists to allow better cross attached units command and control (increasing their combat power).

A Legion would indicate a fully self contained force capable of totally independent operations while a Division is usually pary of a much larger commmand structure.
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Old 07 Apr 13, 17:32
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Thank you all. I really appreciate it. I can't believe that I forgot about this thread, while overhauling my story and consequently working on different ORBATs! Thanks Gunny for bumping the thread.

@Gunny0231 - Forgive me if this is too stupid or ignorant of a question , how would the word "independent" be used for military operation? I mean, do you literally mean that it's the only unit around, or do you mean that it would be capable of doing an entire operation without having to pull from other units?
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